I disagree with the bag fee. I use cloth bags whenever I can, but sometimes my groceries take up more space than the cloth bags that I have. When toting around 3 children, a purse, a bottle, coats and the like it becomes an added stress at times. Should I be punished for shopping? All my plastic bags are reused for garbage can liners, bags for hauling items to friends, garage sales and I donate any extra to second hand stores. (Although lately I haven't had any extra). Now I will have to purchase plastic any way I look at it. Either at the store in a fee or at the store in a Glad or Hefty box.
As I think that this fee will come to pass I am already DEVISING ALTERNATIVE ways around it. 1) Bring whatever cloth bags I can - then just have the cashier put in my cart excess items (no bags) have a BOX in my CAR at all times for loading and unloading. 2) Continue saving and reusing bags like: cat and dog food bags, newspaper bags, and dry cereal bags. 3) Instead of using plastic bags for garbage bags I may just use laundry soap buckets, and plastic buckets which are easy to rinse. 4) Use birthday bags for hauling items to friends 5) MAKE BAGS out of items like: Old T-shirts, blankets, plastic tablecloths and more.
Just wanted to let you know Oregon and Washington are on the forefront for earth care....just came from Utah and we couldn't even FIND a place to recycle...anything.
Scottie - 16 years ago
wrnchbndr...here's one back at ya. You missed my whole point. I was talking about environmental awareness, not minuscule proportions of trash in the landfill. Every tiny step we can take adds up to a cleaner and more environmentally friendly tomorrow. Why should we mindlessly waste plastic when this problem is so easy to solve. Also, you say that plastic is recyclable. People have know that for years, but very few people want to take the time and effort to recycle the little plastic bags that you say make up less than 1% of landfill trash. People have tried to emphasize recycling for years, but nobody listens. It's time for action, and a bag tax could be the only way people will listen. Maybe it takes a little "drama" to get the rest of the world pay attention.
wrnchbndr - 16 years ago
Beth Lyons
If you don't know what you are talking about then don't post!!!
Plastic is 100% recyclable. It can be used in all sorts of ways including coming back to you as another bag that you can recycle again and again.
Wrnchbndr - 16 years ago
Scottie
Sounds like you need to move to the noth pole so you can have pristine air to breath!! Can you say DRAMA QUEEN!!!!!!?????
Have have worked in the plastics industry for 20 years and I can tell you that very little goes to a landfill (less than 1%) from the manufacturing side of the business. So my question is why punish an industry for something that consumers are doing??
Everyone in Portland gets recycling bins if they don't use them, FINE them!!!!
Sam needs to get a true reality check and see that 99% of Portland and the state are not bicycle spandex wearing latte sipping idiots like him!!!!
Scottie - 16 years ago
Hey guys...Chew on the facts for a minute. Try putting a trillion bags into the ground, and then the next year add another trillion. And the next year, another trillion. Heck, in 10 years you could have 10 trillion bags in the ground just sitting there, doing absolutly nothing. Not even decomposing. Not to mention the fumes and the electricity waste from the factories in the air. It's mindless waste that can be avoided. And though it seems a rather tiny amount of waste compared to everything else we throw away, taxing bags brings environmental awareness. Pollution directly affects YOU! I live near Portland, and whenever I visit it, I can hardly breathe. I can't wait to get out because I feal like I'm suffocating. Today it's plastic bags, tomorrow it's better hybrid cars. It's the first step toward lasting environmental change.
Marla - 16 years ago
Sam's proposal is quite disturbing, but I fear minor compared to what is to come, as our far left government officials seek to control more and more of our lives and wallets through more taxation. People need to wake up and look at the bigger picture of what’s happening here. This isn't just about plastic bags. Another example of the government subtly working their way into our personal lives is the proposal to force chain restaurants to post calorie counts on their menu boards. Apparently Multnomah County thinks it’s their duty to take care of our health. What’s next? Scales at McDonalds and then banning overweight people from buying a cheeseburger? Oh wait, maybe they could buy calorie credits from a skinny person.
Larry Hutchinson - 16 years ago
The campaign to ban or charge for disposable plastic shopping bags is nothing short of moronic. All is does is give people the false sense they they are helping to "save the planet" when in fact they are doing nothing of the sort.
What exactly is the problem that this is supposed to solve?
Is it that they fill up landfills? How can anyone think that tiny bit of plastic weighting just a fifth of an ounce and taking up the volume of a very small marble can compare to the rest of the stuff you throw out?
Is it that they take a long time to decompose? Well, that is a good thing. Landfills are specifically designed so that things to do not decompose.
Is it because they waste precious oil? Again they weigh a fifth of an ounce. A back of the envelope calculation show that you waste the petroleum equivalent of 3 bags every time you have to stop your car from 30 MPH. One bag will take your average car about 150 feet.
Look at it this way: What we are doing is taking a black sticky toxic oil out of the ground, diverting an infinitesimal fraction to make a useful product and then returning it back to ground not as a toxic oil but as a harmless inert white plastic.
Sean Stanley - 16 years ago
WOW! And they say the Republicans hate the poor.... Sam Adams is an idiot
gary - 16 years ago
When will it stop. Political correctness is a cancer to society. People can and have thought for themselves for centurys. Paying for plastic or paper is outlandish. When will people wake up to all of this nonsense. Government is supposed to be "by the people, for the people". A year or so local government in Eugene attempted to inpose a "parking space tax" without a vote. The idea was that home owners and renters would have to pay a city tax on the amount of parking spaces that they were allotted if they rented and how any parking spaces you had in your driveway if you owned a home. It failed. Now its a tax on paper or plastic. Ever consider a recall before this politically correct tyrant takes office. This is America. We are supposed to be free from this type of lunacy. It will not stop until we stop it. Politically correct people like Sam Adams count on the masses to follow like sheep. Are we to allow the ideals of others to be forced on us? You may say, "It's just paper or plastic". What you fail to see is that it never stops at just one thing. What's next, taxes on what we read, on what we think. People, we all had better wake up and stop nonsense like this in its tracks before its to late.
romy - 16 years ago
I am a Swiss citizen and we have been charged for plastic for over 20 years.
It is just automatic for Swiss people to gring their shopping bags to the grocery store. This is a no brainer. We are glad to see that major grocery stores are selling for one dollar, artractive, reusable grocery bags with their name on them. Costco has very large ones,safeway,thriftway and others have normal grocery ones. Lets get with it and do this small part for our enviroment
Beth Lyons - 16 years ago
Yes, definetely, plastic bags are not recyclable and should not be put in landfills!
No, also definetely, paper bags are recyclable and are not the landfill problem that plastic bags are.
The City of Porltland might be slow in acting re plastic bags, but it is insane to try to make up fro having not yet moved on plastic bags to do so by including paper bags.
The City's analysis should include what the cost will be (will all self supplied bags) from additional driving to shop - how much additional cost for more driving. [Point that Sam and other commissioners need to realize is not every-one lives in the downtown core or have corner stores, rather, many have to drive to shop and that additional cost should be in the pro/con analysis. The City analysis should also include the benefits from including paper (which is not justified today) with plastic. So the City should ban plastic, and set up an ongoing study of the cost of using paper, pro and con, and if paper every reaches the cost level plastic has, then consider including paper with plastic.
The bottom line: discouraging the use fo plastic is good pubic policy, discouraging the use of paper is bad public policy, UNTIL, cost benefit analysis shows that paper is also warrranted (to discourage). Now, do the right thing!
Ken - 16 years ago
Outlaw plastic bags all together. If your not convinced, just look around when traveling through this beautiful country we live in. You'll see plastic bags everywhere...
michele - 16 years ago
Plastic bag tax = brave leadership?? Please.
Lolo great idea using wax paper bags. I do use bread bags but never thought about wax. Although, I am still against a "tax".
Anne - 16 years ago
Excellent idea Deb. Rewards are better than punishment. But, from my expereince (as noted), consumers don't go for it. Granted, 6 cents reward isn't as much as 20 cents, but I'm not sure consumers will even go for 20 cents. I wonder how IKEA is fairing, ie charging for bags???
TM - 16 years ago
Personally, I'm all for banning plastic bags. However, I use the grocery store paper bag for home garbage. i don't like the idea of just dumping raw garbage into a bin un-bagged. That, of course, means that instead of using the free grocery store paper bag for garbage I would need to start buying plastic bags from the store to line our home grabage cans. Where's the conservation?
Deb - 16 years ago
Instead of penalizing people for using plastic bags, why not reward people for using reusable bags by reducing the cost of their groceries by 20 cents a bag? The end result of using less plastic would be the same and it would be psycologically more effective. People prefer to be rewarded, not punished.
Mary - 16 years ago
Yes, it's time to charge for plastic and paper.
It's all about change, and not being fearful of transforming to lifestyles which produce less waste. We're killing the world with our waste, and change begins with the personal practice. Thank you Sam, for your brave leadership.
Anne - 16 years ago
Yes, yes, yes!
Go, Sam, go! I am a middle aged conservative Mom, but I am all for this bag "tax." Habits are hard to break, but the US habit of wasteful consumerism needs to be broken. Economics makes the world go round & if bag re-using is tied to economics, it will change habits.
Rewarding those who bring their own bags doesn't completely work: I've been bringing my own bags (yes, 8-10 bags) for 20 years and I don't see very many customers taking advantage of that 6 cent rebate. In fact, the checkers often don't know how to enter it in the pricing--I'm that unusual.
The Germans have been bringing their own bags for 40 years (I know, I lived there). It hasn't hurt them.
This is similar to our landmark bottle bill: anger at the change, but it works well (and saves a lot of litter).
BTW, while Sam's at it: add on the water bottles to our paltry bottle bill. Those bottles are a waste! (And a know a few soccer teams & Boy Scout troops that could use them for fund-raising)
Steven Cornils - 16 years ago
A few points you folks are all missing. Adams wants to tax CONSUMERS, not stores. So, don't kid yourselves that Starbucks is going to start getting taxed. And by the way, "K", you don't get it either. The solution is as simple as what "Ian" posts just before you. Ban the stores from being able to use the bags. We need to stop buying bottled water as well. If Sam really wants to affect the environment in a big way, he can do something about traffic flow in and around Portland. Poorly timed stoplights cost the environment considerably more.
Steven Cornils - 16 years ago
It's up to the grocery stores to no longer offer plastic bags. Paper bags are much more likely to be recycled, and the ones with the handles hold a lot more than plastic bags. Passing yet another tax onto consumers is a bad idea. Food and gas are the same cost whether you're rich or poor, and it's unfair to the poor to place additional fees on bags. I'm not naive enough to think that all costs aren't eventually passed onto consumers in the end, but this is deliberate taxing.
By the way, my Oregonian newspaper, made from paper, comes in a plastic bag every morning. Will the Oregonian be forced to charge an additional 20 cents per paper. I doubt it, otherwise nobody would subscribe.
Lolo - 16 years ago
Ban plastic PERIOD. Pay .25 for paper. Buy cloth they're only about a dollar apiece at your local grocer. Even for large families you could buy 4 or 5 and it'd be cheaper in the long run. As for picking up dog poop-- save your bread wrappers or use wax paper bags.
Lois McComb - 16 years ago
Ban plastic PERIOD. Pay .25 for paper. Buy cloth they're only about a dollar apiece at your local grocer. Even for large families you could buy 4 or 5 and it'd be cheaper in the long run. As for picking up dog poop-- save your bread wrappers or use wax paper bags.
Lois McComb - 16 years ago
Ban plastic PERIOD. Pay .25 for paper. Buy cloth they're only about a dollar apiece at your local grocer. Even for large families you could buy 4 or 5 and it'd be cheaper in the long run. As for picking up dog poop-- save your bread wrappers or use wax paper bags.
Greg - 16 years ago
Gee, let us not stop there. Think globally. Let's charge a tax on all plastic and paper bags used for all retail shops in Portland. Just think of all the additional revenue for the city to spend. Keep your damn hands out of my wallet!
K - 16 years ago
At least one store gives money Back for using reusable bags.. that is a much more fare system than Charging 20 cents per bag. I'm all about saving the environment, and I've been using my own bags for years,.. but I also put those few bags that I DO collect while grocery shopping to use around the house.
Mike P - 16 years ago
Sam: You must be out of your mind. You don't have any commonsense. You should not represent the Portland people. We are already pay for alomst everything around here. Don't try to rip off people again. You are a stupid one.
Carole - 16 years ago
I see nothing wrong with having a bag fee. Plastic bags are an ecological problem that affects all of us. Anything that reduces use of them is a good idea. Even paper bags have an effect on the environment because of the manufacturing and transportation costs. It seems that many people understand that this is and understand that sometimes we have to give up a little personal convenience for the greater good. There have been some excellent suggestions here for how to adjust to the change, and how to get the most use out of the bags one has. One interesting side note is that the management of my apartment building insists that all trash be put into plastic bags before it is dumped down the trash chute. (I suspect this may be common in many apartment buildings.) So like Mary, I may find myself having to buy at least some plastic bags.
Bombash - 16 years ago
Do I get my 20 cents back if I bring the bag back? It may not be that this is the most important thing Sam Adams should be giving his time to, thank you.
The present cost of the bags is included in the cost of buying whatever you buy. Will they lower the cost of groceries if they can collect mony by selling bages? Probably not.
mich - 16 years ago
I am looking at the big picture and yeah adding yet another small tax does matter and it really does add up for some people. Please don't assume just because someone is against the tax that they are against carrying reusable bags. I say no to the tax. I also carry cloth bags in both my purse and trunk of my car. My household recycles more than the city requires and our garbage cart still has room in it even after a month....
Charles Powell - 16 years ago
Aside from the fact that I assidiously separate and recycle everything I can, I find that I am turned off by micromanaging politicians who what to control every aspect of our live according to their own lights. Nuts!! We have too many fees, charges, etc. as it is to justify more. It is as if the people cannot be trusted to do the right things, so they must be fined or charged with something in order to get compliance. Good Grief!! Actually it would increase the income for somebody, although who that is is unclear at this time.
For crying out loud, treat us like adults. The bottle bill: you should see my front yard during the school year. Probably a weeks groceries every year could be obtained by the bottle return itself, but it is me who has to clean it up. Maybe they should just keep the 5 cents and come around and clean our yards. The fee didn't stop the trash and just takes time and money to deal with it.
the 'Pope of Porland' - 16 years ago
Use your head Portlandites. Most people use the biodegradable paper sacks as trash recepticals in the homes....as I do. What is the alternative? Buy 'plastic' liners for the trash can? Are those biodegradable?...NO! If you want to charge for 'plastic' sacks, thats OK by me...I don't use the plastic ones....
K - 16 years ago
Oh my goodness people. Do you really think the environment is a matter of freedom or politics? With freedom comes responsibility. Why do think we have police? Why doesn’t everyone get all huffy because we don’t have the freedom to kill anyone we want? We’re killing our environment. It’s time somebody stepped up and did something about it. The planet doesn’t belong to you or to me it belongs to us. We share this planet with millions of other people. Why are we bickering about a little matter of a bag tax? When you look at the big picture this matter shouldn’t be about tax or no tax, it should be about having a clean earth. If carrying 8-10 reusable bags is so inconvenient or impractical for you than keep some sturdy boxes in the trunk of your car. When you get out of your car, grab a cart from the parking lot. Stick the box in the cart. Go shopping, and have the checkout lady put all your stuff back in the boxes, go back to your car and set the boxes in your trunk. Presto, you’re done. It’s not any harder than what you’re doing now.
In fact, it’s probably easier than messing around with those floppy bags, and it will probably last longer too. And also, for Mary with the trash liner issue...couldn't you just not use a liner? Just throw the trash from the can into the bin you take out to the curb for the trash guy to pick up. Every so often take the can outside and wash it out with a garden hose and some really good anti-bacterial soap. If that seems really icky, just switch to using a paper sack. Dump your trash from the sack to the bin and recycle the sack. If you have to pay extra for the paper sack, who cares. It helps the environment, and it's just 10 or 20 cents.
Ian - 16 years ago
Petroleum-based plastic bags should be banned altogether. Follow the lead of other European countries and US cities like San Francisco. These hard to recycle bags blow around our city, kill marine life, and fill up our landfills.
matt - 16 years ago
bags are not free as it is. the bags that stores give out for free cost them money, and those fees are passed on to the shoppers in the prices for the products they sell. charging fees for bags and encouraging shoppers to reuse bags will reduce store overhead, and may in fact ultimately save the shopper money.
Mona Bellmore - 16 years ago
Don't dispose of or charge more for paper bags. Those of us with bad backs
cannot and should not carry grocery bags with handles.
I have scoliosis of the spine and bad discs. My doctor instructed me to use
paper bags and hold close to my chest to take the pressure off my back.
THINK OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.
Mary - 16 years ago
Sometimes I use the fabric grocery bags; sometimes I have the store pack my groceries in plastic bags. BUT I RE-USE EVERY BAG I get from the store. I never throw any of them away. If didn't get those plastic bags from the store, I would probably need to buy some bags to use to line my kitchen garbage can.
PS - 16 years ago
Go Sam Go... But lets not stop there, we need to tax the Starbuck plastic coffee lids, Franz bread bags, & Jiffy peanut butter jar........
Will Cervarich - 16 years ago
@ Adam Myer: Firstly, no one is restricting your right to a bag; they're just asking that you pay for it if you want it. Just like tolls, property tax, food, water, gas, electricity ... just about everything. Secondly, the reason the right to choose is important to defend in matters like "abortion, euthanasia, and engaging in abhorrent sexual practice," is because those are inherently personal or interpersonal decisions that have no measurable effect on society. Plastic bags that blow around our streets, clog landfills, damage sea ecology, and pointlessly use valuable petroleum resources inherently affect us all.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
Karen - 16 years ago
Charging a fee for plastic and/or paper grocery bags is LUDICRCOUS! Many grocery stores now use paper only and other stores are following this trend. Why does there need to be a fee? My plastic and paper bags have several lives, not just bringing home groceries. They are used to take cans and bottles back to the store, for the garbage I create that can't be recycled such as the plastic packaging, plastic-to-go containers, paper towels, soiled cat litter, food-contaminated materials, waste baskets for recycled junk mail and paper. In fact, I have some paper bags that are over a year old. Plus, I use my cloth bags. I don't need mayor-elect Sam Adams and the Portland City Council to impose another fee on me when my disposal and recycling fees just went up almost $4.00/month to encourage me to recycle more. I would think there are more important issues for the mayor-elect and City Council to decide at this point in time when gang activity is on the rise, health costs are skyrocketing, a major mental health facility is drowning... NO TO THE BAG FEE!
David - 16 years ago
Once again Big Brother knows what is right for us. Don't think for yourself, let us do the thinking for you. And if you are wrong (which we have the wisdom to decide) then we will tax you for your wrongness.
Is the concept of liberty and freedom dead? Have you ever stopped to think that this, too, is an attack on our civil liberties? The most basic liberty is the right to think for ourselves. What makes you think government is so wise and knows what is best for everyone?
Yes, let the market (personal freedom to choose) decide. The greater good of the masses = tyranny for the individual. Granted this is a small issue but it is one more example of group think trampling on individual freedom.
Will Cervarich - 16 years ago
I'm really surprised at the hostility this policy is eliciting. We can fight each other tooth and nail about the implications of freedom imbued in a policy crafted to reduce waste, but when it comes down to it, who cares?!? A plastic bag policy is not a slippery slope to a police state, rather it's an example of us working together to make our environment healthier.
Other concerns were:
-a tax on the poor: the article said proceeds from the bag tax would go to provide free bags to lower income families. (Robert Boone asks "Where is the compassion?" which seems a bit over the top to me. We're not talking about burning down poor people's houses and killing their pets, we're talking about a $0.20 bag tax that is avoidable by a simple change of habit.)
-it should be the choice of the businesses: the state imposes regulations on businesses all the time for the common good. Scrubbers on smoke stacks, restrictions on dumping, and on and on... this regulation is essential to leveling the playing field and getting things done. The free market isn't always the most efficient way to accomplish change.
-it's not practical to carry 8-10 recyclable bags: really? why? Is it the weight or the size? You carry full bags into your house at the end of your shopping trip; it's as simple as remembering to take the bags back out to the car after you've put your groceries away. You take your purse out when you leave. You remember to take an umbrella when it rains. You take the trash out on trash night. It's a small thing to remember; a new habit to create. No biggie.
I really hope this policy passes without bogging down city hall in meaningless debate about freedom and guvment's place. Won't you join me in trading a small, insignificant emblem of your freedom for the lessened burden on our landfills and recycling infrastructure, a reduction in the number of bags blowing around the streets in North Portland, and the general health our our environment?
Joan - 16 years ago
This is a ridiculous issue right now. Shouldn't Sam Adams focus more on the economy, jobs, housing, and homeless issues rather than paying for grocery bags? If Sam wants to make his mark on the city, fix those problems first.
John - 16 years ago
Wow. Hard to separate the grocery bag issue for the Sam debate. I have a family of 5 and average 8-10 bags of grocery. I started reusing plastics bags two years ago. It has cut my plastic bag use by 90%. I just switched over to permanent bags as a personal choice. I started by keeping the bags in my car so I wouldn't forget but now it is a habit. I love that my store pays me to reuse bags (.06 per bag) but most people just get there bags and they go in the landfill. I think there should be a prepay disposal fee for these bags but .20 sounds too high. I think .05 to .10 would be a good start and use the proceeds for education on recycling, lowering price of reusable bags,or increasing rebate for using reusable bags. I read that it takes 1 gallon of gas to produce 14 plastic bags. Considering the US uses about 14 billion plastic bags a year, we are wasting 1 billion gallons of gas that goes directly into our land fills. Even my 8 year old thinks thats "Dumb!"
Adam Myer - 16 years ago
Just another example of liberal, West coast attempts at social engineering. The elite obviously know what is best for the rest of us, and if they cannot persuade us by reason of argument then they will punish the unenlightened with imposed fines until we submit.
If Oregonians such as Adams see "the right to choose" as being so important in issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and engaging in abhorrent sexual practice, why is it then that the rest of us should be unable to exercise that faculty of choice in such a simple matter as "paper or plastic"?
David - 16 years ago
If stores want to start charging for bags, more power to them. Let the market decide. However, this is another issue government needs to stay out of.
We are becoming less free every day as a nation as we continue to mandate how people live. I already use re-usable bags at the grocery store - by my own choice, because I am a true conservative and believe in less waste. I use them most of the time except when my supply of paper/plastic bags deplete around the house. My involvement in a re-usable bag is voluntary. However, I do not want to be told by some so-called progressive leader how I live my life or be taxed by the government because I choose paper or plastic. Screw you, Adams. Next we will be taxed for using plastic straws, stir sticks, and paper cups. Thankfully, most of my shopping is in Clackamas County, where there is still some semblance of sanity.
Patrick Loop - 16 years ago
Actually, we already pay for the bags. They are factored in as a cost and we pay all costs of the grocery store. Let's not be naive. Does Sam Adams want us to pay twice for the bags? Probably.
When I shop for my family, it is not practical to carry 8 to 10 reusable bags. This just seems to be a nonsensical solution to a non problem
Michele - 16 years ago
many are already paying, either in the recently increased garbage pick up fees or from not receiving a credit for bringing their own bag.
i do believe strongly in controlling our waste but don't believe that a government city tax is the way to go. if anyone should tack on a fee it should be the business (if they choose).
Robert Boone - 16 years ago
I agree its going to be a long four years, Sam wants to pass a law that once again punishes the poor who are struggling to survive. Where is the compassion ? Make no mistake this is another tax on the poor.
Barb - 16 years ago
I am 100% behind this idea. There are so many times people get a bag whether they need it or not. If I forget my bag and I have to pay $.20 I don't think it will have any impact on me. It is time for a change and I think Sam Adams is just the guy to bring it!
L - 16 years ago
Carrying one resuseable bag may be practical for singles or couples, but not for families.
william murphy - 16 years ago
Ban plastic,paper free ,carrying a reusable with you at all times is not practical this is just the first of many ideas by Sam Adams of telling us how to live our lives. It will be a long four years.
Susan Tipton - 16 years ago
A bag fee will help encourage us to bring that bag with us. Many small stores and co-ops in various parts of Oregon already do that and when I am visiting and have to pay my dime, I still applaud that-makes me think to keep some bags in my car.
I disagree with the bag fee. I use cloth bags whenever I can, but sometimes my groceries take up more space than the cloth bags that I have. When toting around 3 children, a purse, a bottle, coats and the like it becomes an added stress at times. Should I be punished for shopping? All my plastic bags are reused for garbage can liners, bags for hauling items to friends, garage sales and I donate any extra to second hand stores. (Although lately I haven't had any extra). Now I will have to purchase plastic any way I look at it. Either at the store in a fee or at the store in a Glad or Hefty box.
As I think that this fee will come to pass I am already DEVISING ALTERNATIVE ways around it. 1) Bring whatever cloth bags I can - then just have the cashier put in my cart excess items (no bags) have a BOX in my CAR at all times for loading and unloading. 2) Continue saving and reusing bags like: cat and dog food bags, newspaper bags, and dry cereal bags. 3) Instead of using plastic bags for garbage bags I may just use laundry soap buckets, and plastic buckets which are easy to rinse. 4) Use birthday bags for hauling items to friends 5) MAKE BAGS out of items like: Old T-shirts, blankets, plastic tablecloths and more.
Just wanted to let you know Oregon and Washington are on the forefront for earth care....just came from Utah and we couldn't even FIND a place to recycle...anything.
wrnchbndr...here's one back at ya. You missed my whole point. I was talking about environmental awareness, not minuscule proportions of trash in the landfill. Every tiny step we can take adds up to a cleaner and more environmentally friendly tomorrow. Why should we mindlessly waste plastic when this problem is so easy to solve. Also, you say that plastic is recyclable. People have know that for years, but very few people want to take the time and effort to recycle the little plastic bags that you say make up less than 1% of landfill trash. People have tried to emphasize recycling for years, but nobody listens. It's time for action, and a bag tax could be the only way people will listen. Maybe it takes a little "drama" to get the rest of the world pay attention.
Beth Lyons
If you don't know what you are talking about then don't post!!!
Plastic is 100% recyclable. It can be used in all sorts of ways including coming back to you as another bag that you can recycle again and again.
Scottie
Sounds like you need to move to the noth pole so you can have pristine air to breath!! Can you say DRAMA QUEEN!!!!!!?????
Have have worked in the plastics industry for 20 years and I can tell you that very little goes to a landfill (less than 1%) from the manufacturing side of the business. So my question is why punish an industry for something that consumers are doing??
Everyone in Portland gets recycling bins if they don't use them, FINE them!!!!
Sam needs to get a true reality check and see that 99% of Portland and the state are not bicycle spandex wearing latte sipping idiots like him!!!!
Hey guys...Chew on the facts for a minute. Try putting a trillion bags into the ground, and then the next year add another trillion. And the next year, another trillion. Heck, in 10 years you could have 10 trillion bags in the ground just sitting there, doing absolutly nothing. Not even decomposing. Not to mention the fumes and the electricity waste from the factories in the air. It's mindless waste that can be avoided. And though it seems a rather tiny amount of waste compared to everything else we throw away, taxing bags brings environmental awareness. Pollution directly affects YOU! I live near Portland, and whenever I visit it, I can hardly breathe. I can't wait to get out because I feal like I'm suffocating. Today it's plastic bags, tomorrow it's better hybrid cars. It's the first step toward lasting environmental change.
Sam's proposal is quite disturbing, but I fear minor compared to what is to come, as our far left government officials seek to control more and more of our lives and wallets through more taxation. People need to wake up and look at the bigger picture of what’s happening here. This isn't just about plastic bags. Another example of the government subtly working their way into our personal lives is the proposal to force chain restaurants to post calorie counts on their menu boards. Apparently Multnomah County thinks it’s their duty to take care of our health. What’s next? Scales at McDonalds and then banning overweight people from buying a cheeseburger? Oh wait, maybe they could buy calorie credits from a skinny person.
The campaign to ban or charge for disposable plastic shopping bags is nothing short of moronic. All is does is give people the false sense they they are helping to "save the planet" when in fact they are doing nothing of the sort.
What exactly is the problem that this is supposed to solve?
Is it that they fill up landfills? How can anyone think that tiny bit of plastic weighting just a fifth of an ounce and taking up the volume of a very small marble can compare to the rest of the stuff you throw out?
Is it that they take a long time to decompose? Well, that is a good thing. Landfills are specifically designed so that things to do not decompose.
Is it because they waste precious oil? Again they weigh a fifth of an ounce. A back of the envelope calculation show that you waste the petroleum equivalent of 3 bags every time you have to stop your car from 30 MPH. One bag will take your average car about 150 feet.
Look at it this way: What we are doing is taking a black sticky toxic oil out of the ground, diverting an infinitesimal fraction to make a useful product and then returning it back to ground not as a toxic oil but as a harmless inert white plastic.
WOW! And they say the Republicans hate the poor.... Sam Adams is an idiot
When will it stop. Political correctness is a cancer to society. People can and have thought for themselves for centurys. Paying for plastic or paper is outlandish. When will people wake up to all of this nonsense. Government is supposed to be "by the people, for the people". A year or so local government in Eugene attempted to inpose a "parking space tax" without a vote. The idea was that home owners and renters would have to pay a city tax on the amount of parking spaces that they were allotted if they rented and how any parking spaces you had in your driveway if you owned a home. It failed. Now its a tax on paper or plastic. Ever consider a recall before this politically correct tyrant takes office. This is America. We are supposed to be free from this type of lunacy. It will not stop until we stop it. Politically correct people like Sam Adams count on the masses to follow like sheep. Are we to allow the ideals of others to be forced on us? You may say, "It's just paper or plastic". What you fail to see is that it never stops at just one thing. What's next, taxes on what we read, on what we think. People, we all had better wake up and stop nonsense like this in its tracks before its to late.
I am a Swiss citizen and we have been charged for plastic for over 20 years.
It is just automatic for Swiss people to gring their shopping bags to the grocery store. This is a no brainer. We are glad to see that major grocery stores are selling for one dollar, artractive, reusable grocery bags with their name on them. Costco has very large ones,safeway,thriftway and others have normal grocery ones. Lets get with it and do this small part for our enviroment
Yes, definetely, plastic bags are not recyclable and should not be put in landfills!
No, also definetely, paper bags are recyclable and are not the landfill problem that plastic bags are.
The City of Porltland might be slow in acting re plastic bags, but it is insane to try to make up fro having not yet moved on plastic bags to do so by including paper bags.
The City's analysis should include what the cost will be (will all self supplied bags) from additional driving to shop - how much additional cost for more driving. [Point that Sam and other commissioners need to realize is not every-one lives in the downtown core or have corner stores, rather, many have to drive to shop and that additional cost should be in the pro/con analysis. The City analysis should also include the benefits from including paper (which is not justified today) with plastic. So the City should ban plastic, and set up an ongoing study of the cost of using paper, pro and con, and if paper every reaches the cost level plastic has, then consider including paper with plastic.
The bottom line: discouraging the use fo plastic is good pubic policy, discouraging the use of paper is bad public policy, UNTIL, cost benefit analysis shows that paper is also warrranted (to discourage). Now, do the right thing!
Outlaw plastic bags all together. If your not convinced, just look around when traveling through this beautiful country we live in. You'll see plastic bags everywhere...
Plastic bag tax = brave leadership?? Please.
Lolo great idea using wax paper bags. I do use bread bags but never thought about wax. Although, I am still against a "tax".
Excellent idea Deb. Rewards are better than punishment. But, from my expereince (as noted), consumers don't go for it. Granted, 6 cents reward isn't as much as 20 cents, but I'm not sure consumers will even go for 20 cents. I wonder how IKEA is fairing, ie charging for bags???
Personally, I'm all for banning plastic bags. However, I use the grocery store paper bag for home garbage. i don't like the idea of just dumping raw garbage into a bin un-bagged. That, of course, means that instead of using the free grocery store paper bag for garbage I would need to start buying plastic bags from the store to line our home grabage cans. Where's the conservation?
Instead of penalizing people for using plastic bags, why not reward people for using reusable bags by reducing the cost of their groceries by 20 cents a bag? The end result of using less plastic would be the same and it would be psycologically more effective. People prefer to be rewarded, not punished.
Yes, it's time to charge for plastic and paper.
It's all about change, and not being fearful of transforming to lifestyles which produce less waste. We're killing the world with our waste, and change begins with the personal practice. Thank you Sam, for your brave leadership.
Yes, yes, yes!
Go, Sam, go! I am a middle aged conservative Mom, but I am all for this bag "tax." Habits are hard to break, but the US habit of wasteful consumerism needs to be broken. Economics makes the world go round & if bag re-using is tied to economics, it will change habits.
Rewarding those who bring their own bags doesn't completely work: I've been bringing my own bags (yes, 8-10 bags) for 20 years and I don't see very many customers taking advantage of that 6 cent rebate. In fact, the checkers often don't know how to enter it in the pricing--I'm that unusual.
The Germans have been bringing their own bags for 40 years (I know, I lived there). It hasn't hurt them.
This is similar to our landmark bottle bill: anger at the change, but it works well (and saves a lot of litter).
BTW, while Sam's at it: add on the water bottles to our paltry bottle bill. Those bottles are a waste! (And a know a few soccer teams & Boy Scout troops that could use them for fund-raising)
A few points you folks are all missing. Adams wants to tax CONSUMERS, not stores. So, don't kid yourselves that Starbucks is going to start getting taxed. And by the way, "K", you don't get it either. The solution is as simple as what "Ian" posts just before you. Ban the stores from being able to use the bags. We need to stop buying bottled water as well. If Sam really wants to affect the environment in a big way, he can do something about traffic flow in and around Portland. Poorly timed stoplights cost the environment considerably more.
It's up to the grocery stores to no longer offer plastic bags. Paper bags are much more likely to be recycled, and the ones with the handles hold a lot more than plastic bags. Passing yet another tax onto consumers is a bad idea. Food and gas are the same cost whether you're rich or poor, and it's unfair to the poor to place additional fees on bags. I'm not naive enough to think that all costs aren't eventually passed onto consumers in the end, but this is deliberate taxing.
By the way, my Oregonian newspaper, made from paper, comes in a plastic bag every morning. Will the Oregonian be forced to charge an additional 20 cents per paper. I doubt it, otherwise nobody would subscribe.
Ban plastic PERIOD. Pay .25 for paper. Buy cloth they're only about a dollar apiece at your local grocer. Even for large families you could buy 4 or 5 and it'd be cheaper in the long run. As for picking up dog poop-- save your bread wrappers or use wax paper bags.
Ban plastic PERIOD. Pay .25 for paper. Buy cloth they're only about a dollar apiece at your local grocer. Even for large families you could buy 4 or 5 and it'd be cheaper in the long run. As for picking up dog poop-- save your bread wrappers or use wax paper bags.
Ban plastic PERIOD. Pay .25 for paper. Buy cloth they're only about a dollar apiece at your local grocer. Even for large families you could buy 4 or 5 and it'd be cheaper in the long run. As for picking up dog poop-- save your bread wrappers or use wax paper bags.
Gee, let us not stop there. Think globally. Let's charge a tax on all plastic and paper bags used for all retail shops in Portland. Just think of all the additional revenue for the city to spend. Keep your damn hands out of my wallet!
At least one store gives money Back for using reusable bags.. that is a much more fare system than Charging 20 cents per bag. I'm all about saving the environment, and I've been using my own bags for years,.. but I also put those few bags that I DO collect while grocery shopping to use around the house.
Sam: You must be out of your mind. You don't have any commonsense. You should not represent the Portland people. We are already pay for alomst everything around here. Don't try to rip off people again. You are a stupid one.
I see nothing wrong with having a bag fee. Plastic bags are an ecological problem that affects all of us. Anything that reduces use of them is a good idea. Even paper bags have an effect on the environment because of the manufacturing and transportation costs. It seems that many people understand that this is and understand that sometimes we have to give up a little personal convenience for the greater good. There have been some excellent suggestions here for how to adjust to the change, and how to get the most use out of the bags one has. One interesting side note is that the management of my apartment building insists that all trash be put into plastic bags before it is dumped down the trash chute. (I suspect this may be common in many apartment buildings.) So like Mary, I may find myself having to buy at least some plastic bags.
Do I get my 20 cents back if I bring the bag back? It may not be that this is the most important thing Sam Adams should be giving his time to, thank you.
The present cost of the bags is included in the cost of buying whatever you buy. Will they lower the cost of groceries if they can collect mony by selling bages? Probably not.
I am looking at the big picture and yeah adding yet another small tax does matter and it really does add up for some people. Please don't assume just because someone is against the tax that they are against carrying reusable bags. I say no to the tax. I also carry cloth bags in both my purse and trunk of my car. My household recycles more than the city requires and our garbage cart still has room in it even after a month....
Aside from the fact that I assidiously separate and recycle everything I can, I find that I am turned off by micromanaging politicians who what to control every aspect of our live according to their own lights. Nuts!! We have too many fees, charges, etc. as it is to justify more. It is as if the people cannot be trusted to do the right things, so they must be fined or charged with something in order to get compliance. Good Grief!! Actually it would increase the income for somebody, although who that is is unclear at this time.
For crying out loud, treat us like adults. The bottle bill: you should see my front yard during the school year. Probably a weeks groceries every year could be obtained by the bottle return itself, but it is me who has to clean it up. Maybe they should just keep the 5 cents and come around and clean our yards. The fee didn't stop the trash and just takes time and money to deal with it.
Use your head Portlandites. Most people use the biodegradable paper sacks as trash recepticals in the homes....as I do. What is the alternative? Buy 'plastic' liners for the trash can? Are those biodegradable?...NO! If you want to charge for 'plastic' sacks, thats OK by me...I don't use the plastic ones....
Oh my goodness people. Do you really think the environment is a matter of freedom or politics? With freedom comes responsibility. Why do think we have police? Why doesn’t everyone get all huffy because we don’t have the freedom to kill anyone we want? We’re killing our environment. It’s time somebody stepped up and did something about it. The planet doesn’t belong to you or to me it belongs to us. We share this planet with millions of other people. Why are we bickering about a little matter of a bag tax? When you look at the big picture this matter shouldn’t be about tax or no tax, it should be about having a clean earth. If carrying 8-10 reusable bags is so inconvenient or impractical for you than keep some sturdy boxes in the trunk of your car. When you get out of your car, grab a cart from the parking lot. Stick the box in the cart. Go shopping, and have the checkout lady put all your stuff back in the boxes, go back to your car and set the boxes in your trunk. Presto, you’re done. It’s not any harder than what you’re doing now.
In fact, it’s probably easier than messing around with those floppy bags, and it will probably last longer too. And also, for Mary with the trash liner issue...couldn't you just not use a liner? Just throw the trash from the can into the bin you take out to the curb for the trash guy to pick up. Every so often take the can outside and wash it out with a garden hose and some really good anti-bacterial soap. If that seems really icky, just switch to using a paper sack. Dump your trash from the sack to the bin and recycle the sack. If you have to pay extra for the paper sack, who cares. It helps the environment, and it's just 10 or 20 cents.
Petroleum-based plastic bags should be banned altogether. Follow the lead of other European countries and US cities like San Francisco. These hard to recycle bags blow around our city, kill marine life, and fill up our landfills.
bags are not free as it is. the bags that stores give out for free cost them money, and those fees are passed on to the shoppers in the prices for the products they sell. charging fees for bags and encouraging shoppers to reuse bags will reduce store overhead, and may in fact ultimately save the shopper money.
Don't dispose of or charge more for paper bags. Those of us with bad backs
cannot and should not carry grocery bags with handles.
I have scoliosis of the spine and bad discs. My doctor instructed me to use
paper bags and hold close to my chest to take the pressure off my back.
THINK OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.
Sometimes I use the fabric grocery bags; sometimes I have the store pack my groceries in plastic bags. BUT I RE-USE EVERY BAG I get from the store. I never throw any of them away. If didn't get those plastic bags from the store, I would probably need to buy some bags to use to line my kitchen garbage can.
Go Sam Go... But lets not stop there, we need to tax the Starbuck plastic coffee lids, Franz bread bags, & Jiffy peanut butter jar........
@ Adam Myer: Firstly, no one is restricting your right to a bag; they're just asking that you pay for it if you want it. Just like tolls, property tax, food, water, gas, electricity ... just about everything. Secondly, the reason the right to choose is important to defend in matters like "abortion, euthanasia, and engaging in abhorrent sexual practice," is because those are inherently personal or interpersonal decisions that have no measurable effect on society. Plastic bags that blow around our streets, clog landfills, damage sea ecology, and pointlessly use valuable petroleum resources inherently affect us all.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
Charging a fee for plastic and/or paper grocery bags is LUDICRCOUS! Many grocery stores now use paper only and other stores are following this trend. Why does there need to be a fee? My plastic and paper bags have several lives, not just bringing home groceries. They are used to take cans and bottles back to the store, for the garbage I create that can't be recycled such as the plastic packaging, plastic-to-go containers, paper towels, soiled cat litter, food-contaminated materials, waste baskets for recycled junk mail and paper. In fact, I have some paper bags that are over a year old. Plus, I use my cloth bags. I don't need mayor-elect Sam Adams and the Portland City Council to impose another fee on me when my disposal and recycling fees just went up almost $4.00/month to encourage me to recycle more. I would think there are more important issues for the mayor-elect and City Council to decide at this point in time when gang activity is on the rise, health costs are skyrocketing, a major mental health facility is drowning... NO TO THE BAG FEE!
Once again Big Brother knows what is right for us. Don't think for yourself, let us do the thinking for you. And if you are wrong (which we have the wisdom to decide) then we will tax you for your wrongness.
Is the concept of liberty and freedom dead? Have you ever stopped to think that this, too, is an attack on our civil liberties? The most basic liberty is the right to think for ourselves. What makes you think government is so wise and knows what is best for everyone?
Yes, let the market (personal freedom to choose) decide. The greater good of the masses = tyranny for the individual. Granted this is a small issue but it is one more example of group think trampling on individual freedom.
I'm really surprised at the hostility this policy is eliciting. We can fight each other tooth and nail about the implications of freedom imbued in a policy crafted to reduce waste, but when it comes down to it, who cares?!? A plastic bag policy is not a slippery slope to a police state, rather it's an example of us working together to make our environment healthier.
Other concerns were:
-a tax on the poor: the article said proceeds from the bag tax would go to provide free bags to lower income families. (Robert Boone asks "Where is the compassion?" which seems a bit over the top to me. We're not talking about burning down poor people's houses and killing their pets, we're talking about a $0.20 bag tax that is avoidable by a simple change of habit.)
-it should be the choice of the businesses: the state imposes regulations on businesses all the time for the common good. Scrubbers on smoke stacks, restrictions on dumping, and on and on... this regulation is essential to leveling the playing field and getting things done. The free market isn't always the most efficient way to accomplish change.
-it's not practical to carry 8-10 recyclable bags: really? why? Is it the weight or the size? You carry full bags into your house at the end of your shopping trip; it's as simple as remembering to take the bags back out to the car after you've put your groceries away. You take your purse out when you leave. You remember to take an umbrella when it rains. You take the trash out on trash night. It's a small thing to remember; a new habit to create. No biggie.
I really hope this policy passes without bogging down city hall in meaningless debate about freedom and guvment's place. Won't you join me in trading a small, insignificant emblem of your freedom for the lessened burden on our landfills and recycling infrastructure, a reduction in the number of bags blowing around the streets in North Portland, and the general health our our environment?
This is a ridiculous issue right now. Shouldn't Sam Adams focus more on the economy, jobs, housing, and homeless issues rather than paying for grocery bags? If Sam wants to make his mark on the city, fix those problems first.
Wow. Hard to separate the grocery bag issue for the Sam debate. I have a family of 5 and average 8-10 bags of grocery. I started reusing plastics bags two years ago. It has cut my plastic bag use by 90%. I just switched over to permanent bags as a personal choice. I started by keeping the bags in my car so I wouldn't forget but now it is a habit. I love that my store pays me to reuse bags (.06 per bag) but most people just get there bags and they go in the landfill. I think there should be a prepay disposal fee for these bags but .20 sounds too high. I think .05 to .10 would be a good start and use the proceeds for education on recycling, lowering price of reusable bags,or increasing rebate for using reusable bags. I read that it takes 1 gallon of gas to produce 14 plastic bags. Considering the US uses about 14 billion plastic bags a year, we are wasting 1 billion gallons of gas that goes directly into our land fills. Even my 8 year old thinks thats "Dumb!"
Just another example of liberal, West coast attempts at social engineering. The elite obviously know what is best for the rest of us, and if they cannot persuade us by reason of argument then they will punish the unenlightened with imposed fines until we submit.
If Oregonians such as Adams see "the right to choose" as being so important in issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and engaging in abhorrent sexual practice, why is it then that the rest of us should be unable to exercise that faculty of choice in such a simple matter as "paper or plastic"?
If stores want to start charging for bags, more power to them. Let the market decide. However, this is another issue government needs to stay out of.
We are becoming less free every day as a nation as we continue to mandate how people live. I already use re-usable bags at the grocery store - by my own choice, because I am a true conservative and believe in less waste. I use them most of the time except when my supply of paper/plastic bags deplete around the house. My involvement in a re-usable bag is voluntary. However, I do not want to be told by some so-called progressive leader how I live my life or be taxed by the government because I choose paper or plastic. Screw you, Adams. Next we will be taxed for using plastic straws, stir sticks, and paper cups. Thankfully, most of my shopping is in Clackamas County, where there is still some semblance of sanity.
Actually, we already pay for the bags. They are factored in as a cost and we pay all costs of the grocery store. Let's not be naive. Does Sam Adams want us to pay twice for the bags? Probably.
When I shop for my family, it is not practical to carry 8 to 10 reusable bags. This just seems to be a nonsensical solution to a non problem
many are already paying, either in the recently increased garbage pick up fees or from not receiving a credit for bringing their own bag.
i do believe strongly in controlling our waste but don't believe that a government city tax is the way to go. if anyone should tack on a fee it should be the business (if they choose).
I agree its going to be a long four years, Sam wants to pass a law that once again punishes the poor who are struggling to survive. Where is the compassion ? Make no mistake this is another tax on the poor.
I am 100% behind this idea. There are so many times people get a bag whether they need it or not. If I forget my bag and I have to pay $.20 I don't think it will have any impact on me. It is time for a change and I think Sam Adams is just the guy to bring it!
Carrying one resuseable bag may be practical for singles or couples, but not for families.
Ban plastic,paper free ,carrying a reusable with you at all times is not practical this is just the first of many ideas by Sam Adams of telling us how to live our lives. It will be a long four years.
A bag fee will help encourage us to bring that bag with us. Many small stores and co-ops in various parts of Oregon already do that and when I am visiting and have to pay my dime, I still applaud that-makes me think to keep some bags in my car.