I look at it like this. everyone I mean EVERYONE in the whole world should have the same rights as the Constitution and the bill of rights provide.
With liberty and equal justice for all why would anyone be a terrorist?
The American Flag should be flying over the entire world and every person in the world should be thankful for it.
Michael Kerneer - 14 years ago
It is kind of scary that almost 90% of JPFO members think that the rights in the Bill of Rights are conditional. Every human being under the authority of the US (such as under arrest or being suspected of a crime) has due process rights, freedom of speech and all the rest. If you start putting "except's" into law someone will except you out of your second amendment rights. A constitution only works when it is absolute. We live with the consequences of the excpetions all the time and they are ruining our country.
You should have observed from recent history that our government is very good at finding and selling exceptions and only foolish people go along with those exceptions. Already, US native born citizens have been incarcerated without charge or trial simply by saying the magic word, terrorist.
The root cause of the immigration problem is the welfare state and that is what we must end. Then we can open the borders to all comers (usual disease checks) as they were in the early 20th century when we experienced the most economic growth of all time.
Remember, without a welfare state, all immigrants both produce and consume and will generaly support themselves and yield a net benefit to society.
Tom Jablonski - 14 years ago
I am among the 9% or so who voted "yes". As others have said so well, our rights come from God, and our Bill of Rights generally is designed to protect those rights, so the protections of the Bill should apply even to illegals here. Just because someone is here illegally does not mean they give up their human rights. We have no right to violate human rights under any circumstances.
That said, I also agree that privileges should not be afforded illegals. No welfare, schooling, etc. Since most of the illegals are here trying to support families back in Mexico, I see no reason to deport them. just no welfare, no citizenship.
We need to revisit the Supreme Court decision which bestows citizenship on illegal babies. This was not the intent of those who passed that amendment, including the author of the amendment. Even aboriginal Americans were not considered citizens since they were not "under the jurisdiction" of the U.S. The right of citizenship was snuck into a written decision by one of the liberals (I forget which one) on the Court. The case in question did not even discuss that aspect of the law. It was added almost parenthetically in the majority decision for that case, and is absolutely insane. EVERY country has the right (and responsibility) to control who can become a citizen and under what circumstances.
Defender - 14 years ago
Civil and human rights, yes. Privileges, no.
There have been reports that federal agents have been harassing and strip-searching suspected illegals. Who do they think they are, the Transportation Safety Administration? Flown lately?
The feds need to get out of tunnel-vision amd militarization mode. Accomplishing the mission at all costs (to someone else) risks us turning into what we claim to despise. I can name dozens of incidents in which American citizens became mere tactical problems to be solved. People died. People who had harmed no one but in living free had violated someone's unconstitutional edict on paper.
Soon there'll be nowhere left to run for that social and economic freedom that brings people across our borders. We need to stand where we are and revive freedom there.
alan schultz - 14 years ago
Illegal Immigrants Should Be Deported.
SteveInSD - 14 years ago
Rights come from God. Everyone has them, no matter where they are or are from. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights recognize that, and try to keep gov't from infringing on them. In my view it's as much to protect gov't as it is to protect us. That doesn't mean we have to be defenseless. Our form of gov't is the absolute hardest to maintain, but it's worth it.
carl palowitch - 14 years ago
Illegal means illegal, these heathens deserve what they get! Deport every last one of them, and support citizen run border patrol groups!
Regards,
Carl Palowitch
John - 14 years ago
ALL memebrs who voted "unsure" or "Yes" should be expelled from JFPO as too stupid to live. We do not need weak-willed softies in the struggle with latin gangs and Muslim rabble sure to come. We need a resurected Greek 300 led by another Leonitis, not philosophers and coolaid drinkers.
Rob - 14 years ago
The real truth is, not everyone enjoys the same rights. If someone is convicted of murder in this country, we take his right to live free at the very least. At most we seek capitol punishment and take his right to live at all.
Think of the sequence of events that must take place in order for an illegal mexican to have his rights violated. First he or she must enter the united states Illegally. Then his or her rights must be infringed. I say, "first things first". Enter the US legaly first, then we'll worry about your rights.
A few years ago, I was pulled over and questioned as part of a random roadside sobriety test. I was not violating any law. I was not driving in a way that would indicate I was drunk but I was pulled over anyway under suspicion of drunk driving. So why didn't THAT make national headlines?
Har Boy - 14 years ago
This is not about Mexicans or any other alien in this country illegally. It is about who is going to win! It is the Socialistic indoctrinated liberal party some of which stood up to applaud Calderone when he insulted the USA in his address to Congress. Their polite silence would have been sufficient disapproval of his incompetent remarks Their enthusiastic applause exceeded that reaction to bring about what they perceived as a chance to put down the wishes and opinions of the majority of the people of the UNITED STATES to whom they are beholden for their position in the government. The response to their egregious performance will come in November when the American people rid themselves of self serving legislators who have no clue as to whom they are to represent.
Zero 'government assistance' of any type, no free food, housing, clothing, no NOTHING. Emergency healthcare ONLY to save a life.
If they don't like no getting free stuff from the Taxpayers of The United States, they can go home and complain about no freebies there too.
Felony resulting in death of an American Citizen gets an automatic death penalty, and NO UNLIMITED APPEALS!
If they don't like the rules here, ... home awaits their return....
Cheryl - 14 years ago
Two ways to solve the problem with Illegal Imigrants. 1st Mexico. US should just buy them out and make it the 51st state. Save some money from the border patrol and tax the whole lot of them. While we're at it we would be able to clean up the drug cartels too. Second anyone else caught in this country illegaly then give them a simple option. They want to stay then they serve two tours in the millitary in the middle east. Grant them a permanent visa if they survive. Shoot em if they go AWOL. If not then ship them home with not a penny. Same should go for those with anchor babies.
I am union and Proud IBEW Local 1049
2. Making purchases on a department store credit card.
3. When checking in for a doctor's appointment.
4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.
5. When applying for/renewing a driver's license or passport.
6. When applying for any kind of insurance.
7. When filling out college applications.
8. When donating blood.
9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs.
10. When making debit / credit card purchases, especially if you are out of state.
11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.
I'm surethere are more instances but the point is, we citizens are required to prove who we are nearly every day.
Why should people illegally in this country be exempt? For that matter, perhaps the liberals here can answer the
question as to why we shouldn't guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does and several of them are guarded by the U.S. Military. Example: The N. / S. Korea border, 151 miles long, guarded by 23,000 U.S. soldiers.
I am another who voted "Yes, they should." I'm a little shocked to see so many people at this site who presumably are here because they believe in the Second Amendment, but don't understand the foundation of any of the Bill of Rights. Others have expressed that pretty clearly already, so I won't belabor the point about where rights come from (not from the government). I will merely point out something I didn't see anyone else having said in my quick skimming of the comments, which is that my standard for how the US government should treat people is not "better than how Mexico does it." Have we sunk that low? Are we so desperate to solve a practical problem that we are just as willing to jettison the Bill of Rights as everyone else is when they have their pet problem to solve? Come on people, step up. We could perfectly well deport everyone who is found to be here illegally after *due process of law*. That's not that hard to do. The logistical difficulties are not the reason it isn't happening.
Madashell - 14 years ago
Good evening! I'm madashell and not gonna take it anymore!! There were two previous times, in our nation's past, the government rounded up illegal alliens (aka:undocumented immigrants) and deported them. The first time was after WWII and the second following Korea. Both times, the driving force behind these actions was jobs and our economy. The returning military veterans were faced with an employment problem. Jobs that normally would have gone to them, were taken by illegal alliens. The only way to correct the problem was to get rid of the cause. Illegals were rounded up, sent to debarkation ports, loaded on ships, and deported to Mexico. This mission was accomplished before and it can be done again. The largest problem we have, in implementing this action, is not with our citizens, but finding anyone in Washington DC with the BALLS to do it. Can you say Demorats seeking new voters!.........
Sal - 14 years ago
I just read this from my Downsize DC Subscription (free) Newsletter. It says it all:
From: Jim Babka & Perry Willis
President & Vice President
"Once upon a time, in a country known as the land of the free and the home of the brave, these words were rarely heard:
"May I see your papers please?"
But, increasingly, the free and the brave became dependent and cowardly. They begged to wear chains.
Many fought the trend, but even they were undone, because some in their ranks harbored fears greater than their love of freedom.
Remember where you heard this . . .
If American freedom dies, the widespread desire to control immigration will have been a major factor.
And remember where you heard this . . .
If the fight to defeat the creation of a national ID card FAILS, it will be because of the widespread desire to control immigration. Let us not forget, we have drawn the line on Real ID. Five years have gone by, and we've stalled implementation. But now, other Real ID Jr. proposals are building a head of steam.
So remember where you heard this . . .
Americans will have to carry internal passports, and show them to State officials constantly, and have every aspect of their lives controlled by far off know-it-alls in the federal bureaucracy. Your federal overlords will gain increased control over . . .
* Where, how, and even if you can earn a living
* Whether or not you can board a train, or enter a federal building
* Whether or not you can cash a check, or buy guns or alcohol
* What kind of healthcare you receive
* How long you'll stand in line at the DMV, and whether you can have a license
* Whether or not you can be stopped on our streets, and even detained, for failure to display your card
* And many other aspects of your life
This total control will be made possible by a national identification system that was put in place in order to control immigration. But it will really control YOU!
In this way, immigration control and registration is just like gun control and registration -- it most deeply affects law-abiding citizens."
Sal - 14 years ago
I guess I really blew it. I voted yes. Wish I could change it, now. I was thinking as I read the question, wait a minute, doesn't everyone here have the protection of our Constitution? I agree that the only right they don't have is to be in this country illegally.
There's been a coup in our Government. McCarthy was right! He was proven right when the Soviet Union (supposedly) fell and they opened their archives. The people McCarthy pointed out as spies and guilty of treason are the same infiltrators who are running the Government now. I know who these people are, but if I say, I'm sure my post will be censored.
That being said, type in your search engine: Lobby behind changing U.S. Immigration Laws 1965. There is a reason for this madness. The reason was (is) to destroy all of us of European descent who built this country. The same thing is now happening in every developed country. Check it out. Research, and learn the truth.
I agree with Jim Wasner and others here. If the illegals don't have Constitutional rights, then it's a fast slippery slope to the nefariousl Eye of the DC Axis of Evil turning their gaze on all of us.
Paul B - 14 years ago
"Illegal" aliens? Some day this same government will declare gun owners illegal too. Then who will stand up for you?
Either people have rights or they don't. If they do, then everybody does.
The problems we see with *some* "illegals" are all a result of federal government policy. The government is not your friend or protector. Stop believing in the government religion.
Jerome Borden - 14 years ago
My wife legally immigrated a "few" years ago and one of the things she had to do was take a test on US History and the Constitution, form of Government, etc. So, we studied together and she learned English, too. Right there in the Constitution were references to who was protected by it. The answer was Anyone who is within the borders of the USA, including Territories. The Fourteenth Amendment specified citizship by birth to prevent the former slave holding states from declaring the ex-slaves to be "non-citizens". This is important: If one class of residents can be stripped of their rights, who is next? You, me, or the family down the street? Don't get confused. Just because someone is entitled to legal counsel, Habeus Corpus, etc. doesn't mean they can't be convicted, jailed, deported, or otherwise punished for their crimes. By the way, this goes a long way to explain why we have a facility at "Gitmo" that is on a leased portion of Cuba and not a US Territory.
Jim G - 14 years ago
The Bill of Rights is a statement of the rights given us by our Creator as human rights. As long as the illegal aliens are human they also posess these rights. Due process of law should be upheld and they should still be deported. They are not their government so sorry to those who think we should treat them the same as their government would treat us.
Tony McDonald - 14 years ago
Perhaps we could come up with a FINAL SOLUTION to rid us of these UNDESIRABLES
FlashlightDr - 14 years ago
The Bill of Rights list our inherent rights, not special privileges. If "illegal’s" don't have rights then all of our rights are in jeopardy. Many people currently think that it is inappropriate for “Terrorist” to not be read their Miranda rights. Who will decide who is a terrorist and who is not; who gets their rights and who does not. I don’t want to put anyone in the government in the position of having this authority as it will certainly led to abuse and even tyranny. We can still jail and even deport illegals by following due process just like anyone else accused of a crime
To advocate for anyone to loose their Rights is putting us all at risk. Don't do it!
Joe - 14 years ago
The Bill of Rights enumerates certain rights that we all possess by virtue of the fact that we draw breath. These rignts are not 'granted' by government nor by the Bill of Rights itself. The Bill of Rights merely *recognizes* these *pre-existing* rights. As such, *every* human *everywhere* is possessed with these rights.
Certainly, those here illegally should be deported. However, they still have the same *rights* as you or I.
David Claypool - 14 years ago
Allen Cogbill said it so well in a previous post that I am unable to improve upon it. And yet.... my two cents worth anyway. The Bill of Rights should be for everyone. The sooner it spreads to other countries, the sooner the folks there will want to stay home and not come here except to visit.
cdmiller - 14 years ago
The rights enumerated apply to all human beings *and* illegal immigrants as defined by our laws should be deported.
Barry - 14 years ago
The inaction of the Obama administration, on border and port security is worrisome. Their attempt at amnesty for illegals is also troublesome, It appears to me the government is AT BEST sympathetic to the enemies of freedom. I hope the true Patriots can regain control of the US House and Senate in the 2010 mid term elections. The Senators are the only ones who can stop Obama's radical US Supreme Court nominees. If we loose the Court, God help us.
Jim Wasmer - 14 years ago
If a person, any and every person, in the United States is not given the full Bill of Rights, what is to keep someone in the government from saying you or I are illegal and without being given a chance of raising a defense deported?
Being given the protection of the Bill of Rights does not prevent jail time, deportation, etc. It offers Justice instead of the Law!
Colonel - 14 years ago
I can't fathom the logic of those willing to extend the bill of rights to invaders. Do you want an armed mob of millions that are just merely expressing their Second Amendment rights? Oh I forgot!!! We've already got that...they're called GANGS!!!
Illegals are killing U.S. citizens every day. MS 13, 18th Street, Latin Kings, and thugs from La Raza commit acts of murder, vandalism, and terror, completely unchecked by the paid appologists and their mouthpieces in D.C. . Their mission is to overload our systems until they collapse, and in many states they are near their goal.
Enough is enough! No more goodies, no more anchor baby handouts...I don't even want them returning at the back of the line. That rhetoric is all feel good BS. Once they've decided to break laws at will, why would they EVER STOP? THROW THEM OUT! It's time for the military to defend OUR BORDERS with DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED.
Colonel.....
Rambone - 14 years ago
If you want to correct the illegal immigration problem, these are the solutions: Oppose Amnesty. Get rid of the handouts that attract them here. Enforce the laws that are already in place on employers who illegally hire undocumented workers. Secure the border. Oppose a National ID card. Defend the Constitution!!
Rambone - 14 years ago
This question should be phrased, "Should the Government have to follow the Constitution when dealing with illegal aliens?" The answer is of course, YES, the Constitution must be followed no matter what the crisis is.
The Bill of Rights would more correctly named the "Bill of Restrictions." All of these Amendments are directed toward the Government. Congress shall make no law... Shall not be infringed... etc. These are all restrictions on what the Government may not do, and procedures that it must follow. There are no qualifiers on the Bill of Rights; they are rules that the Government must follow for anyone. If we encourage the Government to break free of the Constitution in some instances, the precedent has been set, it is only a matter of time before they take it another step further. For this reason I say that the Government must be kept in line, follow the Constitution, the rules that are there to keep it from turning tyrannical.
Let's analyze what it means to abandon the Bill of Rights.
Sample laws:
Forced religion?
Punishment for speaking?
Punishment for writing?
More gun control?
Forced to house soldiers?
No warrants?
No judge, no jury?
Indefinitely held without trial?
Excessive bail demanded?
Why would we trust our government with such limitless power? I'm afraid of what they are capable of. I'm not for open borders and amnesty, but I certainly don't think we should just unleash the Gestapo.
Inalienable rights we have at birth. As Citizens of the United States of America, the Govmnt may not restrict them or take them away. How are non US citizens protected?
S.R. Elliott - 14 years ago
I hear all these opponents of this new bill are calling for a boycott of Arizona. I say good, mission accomplished.
D.J.THOMPSON - 14 years ago
What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand,MORON!
Roy Messer - 14 years ago
How many Illegal Aliens have died fighting for the U.S.A. ? Better yet,do you think any of them would die for you?
Do you know one,just one,that pays taxes? All the taxes a working American pays? They are a CANCER on the U.S.A.
and should be treated as such.There are more ILLEGALS on our soil than there are U.S. Military.Doesn't that set you at YELLOW ALERT ?
gaston - 14 years ago
It is my understanding that the Bill of Rights, enumerates rights the Founding Fathers' considered fundamental for everyone on the planet. At first they considered some of them so obvious that it was not necessary to even enumerate them in the Constitution and then some of them clarified the Constitution. I find it mind boggling that people think that the Right of Free Speech and the Right to Bear Arms are NOT applicable to everyone!
Deport them and or help illegals assert their rights in their own country.
Mike Courtney - 14 years ago
14th Amendment--Life, Liberty, Property and equal protection under the law, NO MORE!
Wayne Ebeling - 14 years ago
Arizona has the right idea. All the lower 48 need to follow their example. Another idea, although much more radical, would be an open season with no bag limit. The season wouldn't be open long before the flow would stop.
Henry Morgan - 14 years ago
AN IMMODEST PROPOSAL
Dear Senator / Representative,
STOP BASHING ARIZONA !
STOP SAYING WE CAN'T DEPORT 12 MILLION ILLEGALS.
STOP MAKING EXCUSES.
ENFORCE THE DAMNED LAW..... LIKE YOUR OATH REQUIRES!
EISENHOWER DID IT. SO CAN YOU. FAST, EASY AND CHEAP.
PASS A LAW: $500.00 CASH BOUNTY PAID FOR ANY ADULT ILLEGAL ALIEN, (DEAD OR ALIVE) FOUND IN THE US 6O DAYS AFTER PASSAGE OF THE BILL,PAYABLE AT ANY US MARSHALLS OFFICE.
We might have trouble buying bus tickets for a few weeks...and have to listen to the liberals / commies shrieking and wailing, but that's an inconvenience I could live with. GET IT DONE!
Or the states will.
Jek Silberstein - 14 years ago
Quid-pro-quo, YES! And NONE of you yet see the "big picture", --the totality of what's coming(--unless we stop it). Destroying borders destroys Sovereignty, and USA Sovereignty is the "enemy" of the Same Globalist Conspiracy that WANTS to fold the US into Mexico & Canada, under a N. American Union(NAU/equivilent). Poor nations like Mexico are used as a "tool" to make us ALL... "LOW-WAGE-SLAVES",--DEPENDENT on govt. "programs", because those "dependent" on a govt. will DO...what they are TOLD...to eat, live,& get-by(--until they are declared "surplus" & executed). WHY...did BOTH Bush and now O'Bama advocate Open-borders & Amnesty? Because BOTH are Globalists. Be AWARE of the "Globalist-Conspiracy"--it's just taking a breather,--it's STILL with us,--with the Pols that don't/can't listen to their constituents,--with Global Corporations that FUND the illegal's marches,--with Soros, who's always trying to destroy the Dollar (--Soros' MONEY elected the Kenyian, Barry Soleto (O'Bama)) and Soros and others FUND the dis-mantling of our rights--not merely in Congress, but by liberal judges, and bureaucrats. WAKE-UP and LEARN! The FED is a Globalist PRIVATE super-corporation, who "handles" our currency(--and has MIS-handled the economy). The major MEDIA have Globalist Masters, so they "parrot" the Globalist (O'Bamunist) line. JPFO is NOT Globalist, being subservient to our Constitution, which was an extension of Mosiac law. The U.N. is a MAJOR globalist organ, and while not yet effective, it has traitors like Hillary(--both Clintons are Globalist) pandering to its demands to "regulate (--eliminate)" guns, and when the guns go, kiss your freedom good bye. Don't expect the govt. to DO ANYTHING OTHER than further en-slave us,--its in ITS "interest", to do so. While they are many, --high-up in Govt., and weilding tremedous power, right now, they often are like Cockroaches--they scurry-away when the light of Truth and the facts of their perfidy are revealed, although like Goebbels, they often stand and try to use the media to "bully us down." Liberals often are BLIND to their being USED by Globalists, as "Use-ful Idiots", because embracing Liberal-/Progressive-ism requires NO thought, --only "feelings"... RESEARCH, THINK, and yes, PRAY to the G-d of your faith, and we will prevail!
Our rights come from almighty G_d. They are merely protected by the Bill of Rights. If the illegal's do not have those rights then they are privileges that can be revoked by the state.
An illegal alien has the God given right to defend his life and property just as a citizen does.
Of course an illegal has no right to remain here but that has nothing to do with the argument about whether he has inherent G-d given rights that are inalienable.
Cymond - 14 years ago
I'm surprised by most of the comments; I agree with most! I mean, isn't the Bill of Rights a reflection of our innate human rights? Does birth in another nation deny us the right to speak freely? the right to a fair trial?
"What about the Mexicans who come here, tare down our American Flag, and put up the Mexican flag? Or, the ones who beat the hell out of Americans for wearing a t-shirt with an American Flag?" All of which is despicable and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Along the same line of thinking, you could raise the classic feminazi argument that since some men rape women that no man can ever be trusted. It is not appropriate to judge all by the worst.
So congrats, you don't need a permit to carry a concealed weapon in AZ, just as long as you have a permit to walk down the street!
Oh, and thank G-d for Arizona! We finally have a place where the cops can stop you without cause, search you without cause, and imprison your for failure to carry documents. I can't understand why so many people object to that. I guess people are afraid of anything they're unfamiliar with. We obviously need to re-frame the issue to something people are familiar with; order all police officers to goose step towards any suspect and demand to see their papers!
Ed Lewis - 14 years ago
The Bill of Rights refers only to by birthright natural born Citizens of the many states. They do not in fact even apply to naturalized citizens of the United States, as they are privileged with civil rights (made by men, not by the Creator as our inherent and unalienable rights are) and have the 14th Amendment to rely on.
Illegal aliens are invaders and they have no more rights than a home invader has in our living rooms. There is no difference and every state should imprison every alien and send them back to their country of origin - no trial or anything else that smacks of catering to these despicable people who are in fact doing their part to destroy the real America, if it is not already destroyed for all intents and purposes.
Jose - 14 years ago
I have no problem with anyone who comes here legally, however I have a big problem with ANYONE who enters this country illegally and then proceeds to demand protection under the rights of this nation which I proudly gave 17 years of military service to to preserve. What makes these people think they deserve anything here. As an American citizen, enter any other country illegally and see where it gets you. More specifically, enter Mexico illegally, and see how you get treated. You have no rights there and they will let you know this very clearly! The issue here is not whether you're of hispanic decent, the issue here is that if you want to come to America, come here legally. It's true that America is a country of immigrants, and we should allow people who want to come here legally, enter our country. The time is long overdue for secure borders. I also have a huge problem with any type of amnesty. Why should America reward ANYONE who has broken the laws of this country by entering and being here illegally. Go back where you came from and apply for the proper doucments which will allow you to come live and be a productive citizen of the greatest nation in the world. Illegal immigrants should be given a window of opportunity to leave voluntarily (months not years) and any illegal immigrant found in this country after that period should be immediately deported and permantly barred from entering this country for life. Those who leave voluntarily and apply for the proper documents to enter our country can then be allowed back in on a case by case basis. Entry into our country should be a privileage not a right. As a nation we spend billions of our tax dollars on illegal immigration. What about all the American citizens who are homeless, don't have the means to properly support their families, and can't afford even the basic necessities of life. Without illegal immigration to spend money on America could use them billions of dollars to improve the quality of life for all AMERICANS. No other country in the world grants you the rights that illegal immigrants get automatically when they enter this country.
Claude - 14 years ago
I don't understand people who say that illegal immigrants should have the same rights as our citizens. I defy those who argue that the Bill of Rights applies to all humans who set foot on American soil, no matter how they do it. Please remember that the Bill of Rights is part of our Constitution and defines the rights of American Citizens. It does not apply to any other nation or nationality.
Those who want to participate in our great nation need to immigrate legally period! There is not one other country in the world that tolerates illegal immigration and certainly none that gives illegal immigrants the same privileges and rights as the citizens of that country. And they are not all barbarians.
We (our federal government) are the dummies who allow illegal immigration and pay dearly for it, in the order of billions. We could have health care for all americans (citizens I mean) if we only stopped the financial hemorrhage caused by illegal immigrants (welfare, education, health care, law enforcement and funds shipped tax free to Mexico).
Christopher Young - 14 years ago
As others have mentioned, certain rights are granted by G-d. My personal belief is that persons not US citizens should be treated with courtesy. But that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to them. People here illegally should be deported. And incarcerated for a time before deportation, if they return. Perhaps one year in Sherrif Joe's tent city before deportation. I also believe in cutting off all welfare, medical, etc, for illegals. They can get public aid back home if they want. Or they can apply for US citizenship.
Gustavo Menendez - 14 years ago
Quid-Pro-Quo!
We have the "absolute" right to protect our borders.
The same as Mexico.
Gustavo Menendez - 14 years ago
Quid-Pro-Quo!
We have the "absolute" right to preotect our borders.
The same as Mexico.
Our rights are ours as human beings. Being an American conveys zero fundamental rights. The purpose of our government is ONLY to defend our rights. That includes freedom of association. Immigration laws violate that right. Indeed, the Constitution does NOT delegate any such power to the federal government. The restrictions mentioned in the Constitution referred the importation of SLAVES. Those who endorse restrictions on my freedom or the freedom of ANY innocent human being is endorsing such slavery. The "rule of law" does not trump morality...or do those who constantly refer to the "rule of law" find themselves prepared to endorse past laws such as the Fugitive Slave Act...and to condemn those who ignored that grossly immoral law.
G wilkinson - 14 years ago
When you say they have no rights;you are endorsing tyranny ,by supporting the premise that Rights are granted by men ( or Government : still men in any case ) ,and not born with Rights,by virtue of their (or our ) humanity.I (and the Founders ) believe in "Inalienable Rights "; which, are only taken away by Tyrants and never by a just government of the people !
" No man is free until every man is free."
A.X. Perez - 14 years ago
The Bill of Rights defines the rights of human beings, not citizens. The concept of legal or illegal immigration into the US as we understand it would ave been totally alien to the Founding Fathers. The concept of giving police the power to check ID's to see if a person has permission to be in the country is something expect from the Third Reich or the USSR, not the USA.
This injustice is mitigated only by the fact that Arizona is going to Vermont Carry about the same time Arizona's immigration law kicks in. There will be profiling under the Immigration law contrary to what people claim. However, it will be on whether one is healed, not on apparent ethnicity. Any bets?
JT - 14 years ago
Anyone really want 11 million criminals disloyal to The United States obtaining firearms?
That's quite an impressive army of very angry criminals, and they all parade foreign contries' flags, some of which are communist countries.
MJ - 14 years ago
Too many people are thinking with their emotions and not their brains. Sure, it would be nice to allow anyone who wants to to come to this country and make a better life for themseves. But the fact is, it just isn't possible. There are legal citizens that were born here and lived and worked their entire lives here that deserve the rights and freedoms that this country offers far more then some border jumping illegal. I will be the first to recognize the fact that not all illegal immigrants are violent and detrimental to this country...but unfortunately, there are many many many illegal aliens that enter this country illegally, bringing drugs, violent intentions and genral hatred for all free Americans with them. Even if they were all decent people that were just looking for a better life, this country just can't sustain it. We should be taking care of our "legal" American citizens FRIST AND FORMOST!!! All illegals (Mexican and otherwise) should be sent home. The borders should be PERMANTLY sealed so no illegals can get through except through the legal channels. All other issues aside, this needs to be done just to secure the future of this country and its natural born citizens. I applaude Arizona for standing up for whats right and I sincerly hope that the other states will follow suit.
B. Sierra - 14 years ago
Allen Cogbill has it right.
All men are created equal, and possess certain unalienable rights. He is also right that unalienable rights do not confer any economic privileges or government welfare.
So, although I answered in the negative, that they should not receive Constitutional and Bill of Rights, what I am really saying, which I think is most people's frustration, is that we don't want to financially support illegal aliens any way, anymore, period. The people are in fact, angry.
I believe that the governments utter failure to enforce the laws of our sovereign nation has bred a frustration and pushed the average American to the edge of their tolerance for any illegal immigration activities.
I believe if our border was secured a long time ago (as promised), against illegal crossings of any kind, Americans would be extremely charitable about the people already here. I know I would be.
I think you are seeing this frustration playing out in the poll.
Gerald - 14 years ago
The rights recognized in the constitution of this fine nation and its amendments, are natural rights which are in the best of times the inheritance of all people. There is no way, except in time of war, that people of another country should be treated any differently than citizens of this nation other than in particular instances of privileges restricted to citizens. For instance, aliens, legal or otherwise cannot vote in civic elections or hold public office. Aliens legal or otherwise cannot be subject to the draft as they are presumably citizens of other countries. Having stated these restrictions upon the government, if the aliens are found to be behaving illegally in any manner, they become subject to the same statutes, penalties and obligations relating to obedience to the laws and statutes of the area of residence of citizens with one major difference, the aliens are also subject to deportation in addition to the other penalties.
As others have noted here, the problem with immigration is one of social welfare and entitlements. I find it ironic that an organization not only dedicated to the ideas of G-D given rights but having experience with what happens when a government decides that it is above natural law and decides who lives and dies, and who is "legal" and "illegal" would have such a poll on its website. Is being brown the new yellow star? C'mon, folks, this is a dangerous path you're on.
Mike Tomlin Sr. - 14 years ago
What about the rights of that rancher in Arizona who found a Mexican laying on the ground on the rancher's property? The rancher turned to go back to his Jeep to get a canteen to give the Mexicon a drink of water, and the Mexicon SHOT HIM! The rancher died a couple days later after calling his neighbors for help! What about the Mexicans who come here, tare down our American Flag, and put up the Mexican flag? Or, the ones who beat the hell out of Americans for wearing a t-shirt with an American Flag? What about the large group of Mexicans with placards demanding free food, a free house and free car; because WE owe it to them for stealing California and other Western states from them? They want everything for nothing, and we cant even afford to pay the people who worked their entire life here? Why isn't the border sealed? It isn't sealed because people in high places WANT the illegals to come here-the more the better! I have to ask myself who benefits by letting everyone just walk right in to our country?
Illegal means illegal.
All this sympathy is being drummed up because these aliens are seen by Democrats as a plethora of new fraudulent voters.
Leo R. Sullivan - 14 years ago
Many Democrats and republicans holding office are either marxist socialist, communist, or compromising cowards. Some of them sit on the fence and test the wind before taking sides; these are the worst because they are not only cowards but they are without moral values. The Governor of Arizona is not one of these. She had the courage to take on a difficult stand and in my opinion she has come out smelling like a rose. God bless her! Illegal aliens should have to carry Identification at all times. They should never be allowed to vote in our elections. Why? Because they are not Americans and are not entitled to our Constitutional privileges. It upset me and most Americans to think that we are educating them, giving them welfare checks etc. while treating our own people as second class citizens. Our Politicians are evil and with the exception of a few should not be voted in again. Vote out the incumbant. Leo Sullivan
Arklight - 14 years ago
'We, the people of the United States, in Congress Assembled - - - ' makes no provision for people other than those belonging to the United States by right of birth or citizenship lawfully granted. While it is arguable that the framers were citizens by rule of 'last man standing', or by right of sword, they took their citizenship very seriously and penned a document which, if adhered to and maintained in the minds and hearts of the people, would cause those not so gifted by the Almighty to consider their own status in their own countries, and work to emulate this Republic and implement the founding doctrines, precepts and Constitution in their own homelands. Sneaking across a border onto American soil, or squeezing out a brat within the United States, confers nothing upon that person.
david a, cuttner - 14 years ago
We should adopt the laws of Mexico as they relate to illegal entry into Mexico-certainly those here from Mexico could not object to equality between the two nations.....
Debbie McKee - 14 years ago
The poll results are absolutely scary and very disappointing. Do people not even read the Declaration of Independence any longer? Endowed by their CREATOR by certain UNALIENABLE rights. GOD given, not just Americans but EVERYONE.
No wonder we have torture and detention of American citizens now. What we allow for one group of people will come to haunt us later. If we don't protect the basic human, God given rights of others, then we won't have those rights for long.
However NO ONE has the right to anything that comes from the plundering of another, but that's NOT what the poll was about.
There are problem with our current immigration policies. However, this is just the periphery of more fundamental flaws with respect to Federal intervention via minimum wages laws, union protections, and welfare entitlements.
A) Welfare entitlements are a burden on the taxpayer and the general productive class. For the most part, it encourages those who are unproductive to continue to be a burden on society and never become productive.
B) Minimum wage laws create unemployment, and therefore put unskilled labor on welfare entitlement rolls. If someone is willing to work for less than minimum wage, why should we care? If minimum wage laws are so good, why shouldn't the minimum wage be $100 an hour?! Really, minimum wage laws are Union protectionism, and lead to wage inflation without corresponding productivity increases. The net effect is to export jobs from this country to those that have lower standards of living.
C) Unions are their own worst enemies. If you can't compete in the world economy, you wish to force the local economy to pay more for less. Net effect is the cost of goods are higher than if you were paid market wages and had to compete with everyone else out there.
D) How can we say that "all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" however, that only applies to US citizens. Do unto others as you would have done to you. Does the Declaration of Independence apply to every human being or just specific one's? I'd argue that you have no comprehension of the founding of this country, nor of the principles of Liberty in general if you cannot answer everyone deserves these protections. It is a slippery slope in which one day, *YOU* will be on the other side of the coin needing those very protections.
Stop entitlements, stop minimum wage laws, end the war on drugs, quit spending money we don't have, quite bailing out companies that deserve to go bankrupt because of bad management decisions, stop killing people in foreign countries, and let's get back to being competitive with respect to world markets.
Enough is enough!
Allen Cogbill - 14 years ago
The Bill of Rights does not confer rights onto the people of the U.S. Rather, it simply enumerates some of the rights that those who established the country thought everyone already had. Jefferson termed them inalienable rights. Thus, such rights are considered to be held by all people, not merely citizens of the U.S. (note that, insofar as the Federal government was concerned, the term citizen was not even defined until the 14th Amendment, and the U.S. did not issue passports until the war between the states).
I see absolutely no reason why illegal aliens should not have, as a minimum, all the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. I do, however, note that such does not include the right to a free education, or charity, or welfare, or any other such economic giveaways. Nor does it imply that such aliens have the right to settle in the U.S.
Joan Crooks, DC - 14 years ago
3 Cheers for ARIZONA!!!...passing a law to protect it's citizens...something the Federal Gov't has refused to do!!
It is a shame that the rest of the country has been duped by the inaccurate emotional arguments. This is totally about the Law and expecting EVERYone to obey it. This enabling and rewarding illegals for breaking the law of our Land has got to stop!!
As an Arizonan, I say "Thank you, Gov. Brewer, for having the courage to sign this law !!"
And to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, "Go, Joe !!"
I look at it like this. everyone I mean EVERYONE in the whole world should have the same rights as the Constitution and the bill of rights provide.
With liberty and equal justice for all why would anyone be a terrorist?
The American Flag should be flying over the entire world and every person in the world should be thankful for it.
It is kind of scary that almost 90% of JPFO members think that the rights in the Bill of Rights are conditional. Every human being under the authority of the US (such as under arrest or being suspected of a crime) has due process rights, freedom of speech and all the rest. If you start putting "except's" into law someone will except you out of your second amendment rights. A constitution only works when it is absolute. We live with the consequences of the excpetions all the time and they are ruining our country.
You should have observed from recent history that our government is very good at finding and selling exceptions and only foolish people go along with those exceptions. Already, US native born citizens have been incarcerated without charge or trial simply by saying the magic word, terrorist.
The root cause of the immigration problem is the welfare state and that is what we must end. Then we can open the borders to all comers (usual disease checks) as they were in the early 20th century when we experienced the most economic growth of all time.
Remember, without a welfare state, all immigrants both produce and consume and will generaly support themselves and yield a net benefit to society.
I am among the 9% or so who voted "yes". As others have said so well, our rights come from God, and our Bill of Rights generally is designed to protect those rights, so the protections of the Bill should apply even to illegals here. Just because someone is here illegally does not mean they give up their human rights. We have no right to violate human rights under any circumstances.
That said, I also agree that privileges should not be afforded illegals. No welfare, schooling, etc. Since most of the illegals are here trying to support families back in Mexico, I see no reason to deport them. just no welfare, no citizenship.
We need to revisit the Supreme Court decision which bestows citizenship on illegal babies. This was not the intent of those who passed that amendment, including the author of the amendment. Even aboriginal Americans were not considered citizens since they were not "under the jurisdiction" of the U.S. The right of citizenship was snuck into a written decision by one of the liberals (I forget which one) on the Court. The case in question did not even discuss that aspect of the law. It was added almost parenthetically in the majority decision for that case, and is absolutely insane. EVERY country has the right (and responsibility) to control who can become a citizen and under what circumstances.
Civil and human rights, yes. Privileges, no.
There have been reports that federal agents have been harassing and strip-searching suspected illegals. Who do they think they are, the Transportation Safety Administration? Flown lately?
The feds need to get out of tunnel-vision amd militarization mode. Accomplishing the mission at all costs (to someone else) risks us turning into what we claim to despise. I can name dozens of incidents in which American citizens became mere tactical problems to be solved. People died. People who had harmed no one but in living free had violated someone's unconstitutional edict on paper.
Soon there'll be nowhere left to run for that social and economic freedom that brings people across our borders. We need to stand where we are and revive freedom there.
Illegal Immigrants Should Be Deported.
Rights come from God. Everyone has them, no matter where they are or are from. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights recognize that, and try to keep gov't from infringing on them. In my view it's as much to protect gov't as it is to protect us. That doesn't mean we have to be defenseless. Our form of gov't is the absolute hardest to maintain, but it's worth it.
Illegal means illegal, these heathens deserve what they get! Deport every last one of them, and support citizen run border patrol groups!
Regards,
Carl Palowitch
ALL memebrs who voted "unsure" or "Yes" should be expelled from JFPO as too stupid to live. We do not need weak-willed softies in the struggle with latin gangs and Muslim rabble sure to come. We need a resurected Greek 300 led by another Leonitis, not philosophers and coolaid drinkers.
The real truth is, not everyone enjoys the same rights. If someone is convicted of murder in this country, we take his right to live free at the very least. At most we seek capitol punishment and take his right to live at all.
Think of the sequence of events that must take place in order for an illegal mexican to have his rights violated. First he or she must enter the united states Illegally. Then his or her rights must be infringed. I say, "first things first". Enter the US legaly first, then we'll worry about your rights.
A few years ago, I was pulled over and questioned as part of a random roadside sobriety test. I was not violating any law. I was not driving in a way that would indicate I was drunk but I was pulled over anyway under suspicion of drunk driving. So why didn't THAT make national headlines?
This is not about Mexicans or any other alien in this country illegally. It is about who is going to win! It is the Socialistic indoctrinated liberal party some of which stood up to applaud Calderone when he insulted the USA in his address to Congress. Their polite silence would have been sufficient disapproval of his incompetent remarks Their enthusiastic applause exceeded that reaction to bring about what they perceived as a chance to put down the wishes and opinions of the majority of the people of the UNITED STATES to whom they are beholden for their position in the government. The response to their egregious performance will come in November when the American people rid themselves of self serving legislators who have no clue as to whom they are to represent.
Zero 'government assistance' of any type, no free food, housing, clothing, no NOTHING. Emergency healthcare ONLY to save a life.
If they don't like no getting free stuff from the Taxpayers of The United States, they can go home and complain about no freebies there too.
Felony resulting in death of an American Citizen gets an automatic death penalty, and NO UNLIMITED APPEALS!
If they don't like the rules here, ... home awaits their return....
Two ways to solve the problem with Illegal Imigrants. 1st Mexico. US should just buy them out and make it the 51st state. Save some money from the border patrol and tax the whole lot of them. While we're at it we would be able to clean up the drug cartels too. Second anyone else caught in this country illegaly then give them a simple option. They want to stay then they serve two tours in the millitary in the middle east. Grant them a permanent visa if they survive. Shoot em if they go AWOL. If not then ship them home with not a penny. Same should go for those with anchor babies.
I am union and Proud IBEW Local 1049
American citizens must show ID every day when:
1. Pulled over by the police.
2. Making purchases on a department store credit card.
3. When checking in for a doctor's appointment.
4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.
5. When applying for/renewing a driver's license or passport.
6. When applying for any kind of insurance.
7. When filling out college applications.
8. When donating blood.
9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs.
10. When making debit / credit card purchases, especially if you are out of state.
11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.
I'm surethere are more instances but the point is, we citizens are required to prove who we are nearly every day.
Why should people illegally in this country be exempt? For that matter, perhaps the liberals here can answer the
question as to why we shouldn't guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does and several of them are guarded by the U.S. Military. Example: The N. / S. Korea border, 151 miles long, guarded by 23,000 U.S. soldiers.
I am another who voted "Yes, they should." I'm a little shocked to see so many people at this site who presumably are here because they believe in the Second Amendment, but don't understand the foundation of any of the Bill of Rights. Others have expressed that pretty clearly already, so I won't belabor the point about where rights come from (not from the government). I will merely point out something I didn't see anyone else having said in my quick skimming of the comments, which is that my standard for how the US government should treat people is not "better than how Mexico does it." Have we sunk that low? Are we so desperate to solve a practical problem that we are just as willing to jettison the Bill of Rights as everyone else is when they have their pet problem to solve? Come on people, step up. We could perfectly well deport everyone who is found to be here illegally after *due process of law*. That's not that hard to do. The logistical difficulties are not the reason it isn't happening.
Good evening! I'm madashell and not gonna take it anymore!! There were two previous times, in our nation's past, the government rounded up illegal alliens (aka:undocumented immigrants) and deported them. The first time was after WWII and the second following Korea. Both times, the driving force behind these actions was jobs and our economy. The returning military veterans were faced with an employment problem. Jobs that normally would have gone to them, were taken by illegal alliens. The only way to correct the problem was to get rid of the cause. Illegals were rounded up, sent to debarkation ports, loaded on ships, and deported to Mexico. This mission was accomplished before and it can be done again. The largest problem we have, in implementing this action, is not with our citizens, but finding anyone in Washington DC with the BALLS to do it. Can you say Demorats seeking new voters!.........
I just read this from my Downsize DC Subscription (free) Newsletter. It says it all:
From: Jim Babka & Perry Willis
President & Vice President
"Once upon a time, in a country known as the land of the free and the home of the brave, these words were rarely heard:
"May I see your papers please?"
But, increasingly, the free and the brave became dependent and cowardly. They begged to wear chains.
Many fought the trend, but even they were undone, because some in their ranks harbored fears greater than their love of freedom.
Remember where you heard this . . .
If American freedom dies, the widespread desire to control immigration will have been a major factor.
And remember where you heard this . . .
If the fight to defeat the creation of a national ID card FAILS, it will be because of the widespread desire to control immigration. Let us not forget, we have drawn the line on Real ID. Five years have gone by, and we've stalled implementation. But now, other Real ID Jr. proposals are building a head of steam.
So remember where you heard this . . .
Americans will have to carry internal passports, and show them to State officials constantly, and have every aspect of their lives controlled by far off know-it-alls in the federal bureaucracy. Your federal overlords will gain increased control over . . .
* Where, how, and even if you can earn a living
* Whether or not you can board a train, or enter a federal building
* Whether or not you can cash a check, or buy guns or alcohol
* What kind of healthcare you receive
* How long you'll stand in line at the DMV, and whether you can have a license
* Whether or not you can be stopped on our streets, and even detained, for failure to display your card
* And many other aspects of your life
This total control will be made possible by a national identification system that was put in place in order to control immigration. But it will really control YOU!
In this way, immigration control and registration is just like gun control and registration -- it most deeply affects law-abiding citizens."
I guess I really blew it. I voted yes. Wish I could change it, now. I was thinking as I read the question, wait a minute, doesn't everyone here have the protection of our Constitution? I agree that the only right they don't have is to be in this country illegally.
There's been a coup in our Government. McCarthy was right! He was proven right when the Soviet Union (supposedly) fell and they opened their archives. The people McCarthy pointed out as spies and guilty of treason are the same infiltrators who are running the Government now. I know who these people are, but if I say, I'm sure my post will be censored.
That being said, type in your search engine: Lobby behind changing U.S. Immigration Laws 1965. There is a reason for this madness. The reason was (is) to destroy all of us of European descent who built this country. The same thing is now happening in every developed country. Check it out. Research, and learn the truth.
I agree with Jim Wasner and others here. If the illegals don't have Constitutional rights, then it's a fast slippery slope to the nefariousl Eye of the DC Axis of Evil turning their gaze on all of us.
"Illegal" aliens? Some day this same government will declare gun owners illegal too. Then who will stand up for you?
Either people have rights or they don't. If they do, then everybody does.
The problems we see with *some* "illegals" are all a result of federal government policy. The government is not your friend or protector. Stop believing in the government religion.
My wife legally immigrated a "few" years ago and one of the things she had to do was take a test on US History and the Constitution, form of Government, etc. So, we studied together and she learned English, too. Right there in the Constitution were references to who was protected by it. The answer was Anyone who is within the borders of the USA, including Territories. The Fourteenth Amendment specified citizship by birth to prevent the former slave holding states from declaring the ex-slaves to be "non-citizens". This is important: If one class of residents can be stripped of their rights, who is next? You, me, or the family down the street? Don't get confused. Just because someone is entitled to legal counsel, Habeus Corpus, etc. doesn't mean they can't be convicted, jailed, deported, or otherwise punished for their crimes. By the way, this goes a long way to explain why we have a facility at "Gitmo" that is on a leased portion of Cuba and not a US Territory.
The Bill of Rights is a statement of the rights given us by our Creator as human rights. As long as the illegal aliens are human they also posess these rights. Due process of law should be upheld and they should still be deported. They are not their government so sorry to those who think we should treat them the same as their government would treat us.
Perhaps we could come up with a FINAL SOLUTION to rid us of these UNDESIRABLES
The Bill of Rights list our inherent rights, not special privileges. If "illegal’s" don't have rights then all of our rights are in jeopardy. Many people currently think that it is inappropriate for “Terrorist” to not be read their Miranda rights. Who will decide who is a terrorist and who is not; who gets their rights and who does not. I don’t want to put anyone in the government in the position of having this authority as it will certainly led to abuse and even tyranny. We can still jail and even deport illegals by following due process just like anyone else accused of a crime
To advocate for anyone to loose their Rights is putting us all at risk. Don't do it!
The Bill of Rights enumerates certain rights that we all possess by virtue of the fact that we draw breath. These rignts are not 'granted' by government nor by the Bill of Rights itself. The Bill of Rights merely *recognizes* these *pre-existing* rights. As such, *every* human *everywhere* is possessed with these rights.
Certainly, those here illegally should be deported. However, they still have the same *rights* as you or I.
Allen Cogbill said it so well in a previous post that I am unable to improve upon it. And yet.... my two cents worth anyway. The Bill of Rights should be for everyone. The sooner it spreads to other countries, the sooner the folks there will want to stay home and not come here except to visit.
The rights enumerated apply to all human beings *and* illegal immigrants as defined by our laws should be deported.
The inaction of the Obama administration, on border and port security is worrisome. Their attempt at amnesty for illegals is also troublesome, It appears to me the government is AT BEST sympathetic to the enemies of freedom. I hope the true Patriots can regain control of the US House and Senate in the 2010 mid term elections. The Senators are the only ones who can stop Obama's radical US Supreme Court nominees. If we loose the Court, God help us.
If a person, any and every person, in the United States is not given the full Bill of Rights, what is to keep someone in the government from saying you or I are illegal and without being given a chance of raising a defense deported?
Being given the protection of the Bill of Rights does not prevent jail time, deportation, etc. It offers Justice instead of the Law!
I can't fathom the logic of those willing to extend the bill of rights to invaders. Do you want an armed mob of millions that are just merely expressing their Second Amendment rights? Oh I forgot!!! We've already got that...they're called GANGS!!!
Illegals are killing U.S. citizens every day. MS 13, 18th Street, Latin Kings, and thugs from La Raza commit acts of murder, vandalism, and terror, completely unchecked by the paid appologists and their mouthpieces in D.C. . Their mission is to overload our systems until they collapse, and in many states they are near their goal.
Enough is enough! No more goodies, no more anchor baby handouts...I don't even want them returning at the back of the line. That rhetoric is all feel good BS. Once they've decided to break laws at will, why would they EVER STOP? THROW THEM OUT! It's time for the military to defend OUR BORDERS with DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED.
Colonel.....
If you want to correct the illegal immigration problem, these are the solutions: Oppose Amnesty. Get rid of the handouts that attract them here. Enforce the laws that are already in place on employers who illegally hire undocumented workers. Secure the border. Oppose a National ID card. Defend the Constitution!!
This question should be phrased, "Should the Government have to follow the Constitution when dealing with illegal aliens?" The answer is of course, YES, the Constitution must be followed no matter what the crisis is.
The Bill of Rights would more correctly named the "Bill of Restrictions." All of these Amendments are directed toward the Government. Congress shall make no law... Shall not be infringed... etc. These are all restrictions on what the Government may not do, and procedures that it must follow. There are no qualifiers on the Bill of Rights; they are rules that the Government must follow for anyone. If we encourage the Government to break free of the Constitution in some instances, the precedent has been set, it is only a matter of time before they take it another step further. For this reason I say that the Government must be kept in line, follow the Constitution, the rules that are there to keep it from turning tyrannical.
Let's analyze what it means to abandon the Bill of Rights.
Sample laws:
Forced religion?
Punishment for speaking?
Punishment for writing?
More gun control?
Forced to house soldiers?
No warrants?
No judge, no jury?
Indefinitely held without trial?
Excessive bail demanded?
Why would we trust our government with such limitless power? I'm afraid of what they are capable of. I'm not for open borders and amnesty, but I certainly don't think we should just unleash the Gestapo.
Inalienable rights we have at birth. As Citizens of the United States of America, the Govmnt may not restrict them or take them away. How are non US citizens protected?
I hear all these opponents of this new bill are calling for a boycott of Arizona. I say good, mission accomplished.
What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand,MORON!
How many Illegal Aliens have died fighting for the U.S.A. ? Better yet,do you think any of them would die for you?
Do you know one,just one,that pays taxes? All the taxes a working American pays? They are a CANCER on the U.S.A.
and should be treated as such.There are more ILLEGALS on our soil than there are U.S. Military.Doesn't that set you at YELLOW ALERT ?
It is my understanding that the Bill of Rights, enumerates rights the Founding Fathers' considered fundamental for everyone on the planet. At first they considered some of them so obvious that it was not necessary to even enumerate them in the Constitution and then some of them clarified the Constitution. I find it mind boggling that people think that the Right of Free Speech and the Right to Bear Arms are NOT applicable to everyone!
Deport them and or help illegals assert their rights in their own country.
14th Amendment--Life, Liberty, Property and equal protection under the law, NO MORE!
Arizona has the right idea. All the lower 48 need to follow their example. Another idea, although much more radical, would be an open season with no bag limit. The season wouldn't be open long before the flow would stop.
AN IMMODEST PROPOSAL
Dear Senator / Representative,
STOP BASHING ARIZONA !
STOP SAYING WE CAN'T DEPORT 12 MILLION ILLEGALS.
STOP MAKING EXCUSES.
ENFORCE THE DAMNED LAW..... LIKE YOUR OATH REQUIRES!
EISENHOWER DID IT. SO CAN YOU. FAST, EASY AND CHEAP.
PASS A LAW: $500.00 CASH BOUNTY PAID FOR ANY ADULT ILLEGAL ALIEN, (DEAD OR ALIVE) FOUND IN THE US 6O DAYS AFTER PASSAGE OF THE BILL,PAYABLE AT ANY US MARSHALLS OFFICE.
We might have trouble buying bus tickets for a few weeks...and have to listen to the liberals / commies shrieking and wailing, but that's an inconvenience I could live with. GET IT DONE!
Or the states will.
Quid-pro-quo, YES! And NONE of you yet see the "big picture", --the totality of what's coming(--unless we stop it). Destroying borders destroys Sovereignty, and USA Sovereignty is the "enemy" of the Same Globalist Conspiracy that WANTS to fold the US into Mexico & Canada, under a N. American Union(NAU/equivilent). Poor nations like Mexico are used as a "tool" to make us ALL... "LOW-WAGE-SLAVES",--DEPENDENT on govt. "programs", because those "dependent" on a govt. will DO...what they are TOLD...to eat, live,& get-by(--until they are declared "surplus" & executed). WHY...did BOTH Bush and now O'Bama advocate Open-borders & Amnesty? Because BOTH are Globalists. Be AWARE of the "Globalist-Conspiracy"--it's just taking a breather,--it's STILL with us,--with the Pols that don't/can't listen to their constituents,--with Global Corporations that FUND the illegal's marches,--with Soros, who's always trying to destroy the Dollar (--Soros' MONEY elected the Kenyian, Barry Soleto (O'Bama)) and Soros and others FUND the dis-mantling of our rights--not merely in Congress, but by liberal judges, and bureaucrats. WAKE-UP and LEARN! The FED is a Globalist PRIVATE super-corporation, who "handles" our currency(--and has MIS-handled the economy). The major MEDIA have Globalist Masters, so they "parrot" the Globalist (O'Bamunist) line. JPFO is NOT Globalist, being subservient to our Constitution, which was an extension of Mosiac law. The U.N. is a MAJOR globalist organ, and while not yet effective, it has traitors like Hillary(--both Clintons are Globalist) pandering to its demands to "regulate (--eliminate)" guns, and when the guns go, kiss your freedom good bye. Don't expect the govt. to DO ANYTHING OTHER than further en-slave us,--its in ITS "interest", to do so. While they are many, --high-up in Govt., and weilding tremedous power, right now, they often are like Cockroaches--they scurry-away when the light of Truth and the facts of their perfidy are revealed, although like Goebbels, they often stand and try to use the media to "bully us down." Liberals often are BLIND to their being USED by Globalists, as "Use-ful Idiots", because embracing Liberal-/Progressive-ism requires NO thought, --only "feelings"... RESEARCH, THINK, and yes, PRAY to the G-d of your faith, and we will prevail!
Our rights come from almighty G_d. They are merely protected by the Bill of Rights. If the illegal's do not have those rights then they are privileges that can be revoked by the state.
An illegal alien has the God given right to defend his life and property just as a citizen does.
Of course an illegal has no right to remain here but that has nothing to do with the argument about whether he has inherent G-d given rights that are inalienable.
I'm surprised by most of the comments; I agree with most! I mean, isn't the Bill of Rights a reflection of our innate human rights? Does birth in another nation deny us the right to speak freely? the right to a fair trial?
"What about the Mexicans who come here, tare down our American Flag, and put up the Mexican flag? Or, the ones who beat the hell out of Americans for wearing a t-shirt with an American Flag?" All of which is despicable and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Along the same line of thinking, you could raise the classic feminazi argument that since some men rape women that no man can ever be trusted. It is not appropriate to judge all by the worst.
So congrats, you don't need a permit to carry a concealed weapon in AZ, just as long as you have a permit to walk down the street!
Oh, and thank G-d for Arizona! We finally have a place where the cops can stop you without cause, search you without cause, and imprison your for failure to carry documents. I can't understand why so many people object to that. I guess people are afraid of anything they're unfamiliar with. We obviously need to re-frame the issue to something people are familiar with; order all police officers to goose step towards any suspect and demand to see their papers!
The Bill of Rights refers only to by birthright natural born Citizens of the many states. They do not in fact even apply to naturalized citizens of the United States, as they are privileged with civil rights (made by men, not by the Creator as our inherent and unalienable rights are) and have the 14th Amendment to rely on.
Illegal aliens are invaders and they have no more rights than a home invader has in our living rooms. There is no difference and every state should imprison every alien and send them back to their country of origin - no trial or anything else that smacks of catering to these despicable people who are in fact doing their part to destroy the real America, if it is not already destroyed for all intents and purposes.
I have no problem with anyone who comes here legally, however I have a big problem with ANYONE who enters this country illegally and then proceeds to demand protection under the rights of this nation which I proudly gave 17 years of military service to to preserve. What makes these people think they deserve anything here. As an American citizen, enter any other country illegally and see where it gets you. More specifically, enter Mexico illegally, and see how you get treated. You have no rights there and they will let you know this very clearly! The issue here is not whether you're of hispanic decent, the issue here is that if you want to come to America, come here legally. It's true that America is a country of immigrants, and we should allow people who want to come here legally, enter our country. The time is long overdue for secure borders. I also have a huge problem with any type of amnesty. Why should America reward ANYONE who has broken the laws of this country by entering and being here illegally. Go back where you came from and apply for the proper doucments which will allow you to come live and be a productive citizen of the greatest nation in the world. Illegal immigrants should be given a window of opportunity to leave voluntarily (months not years) and any illegal immigrant found in this country after that period should be immediately deported and permantly barred from entering this country for life. Those who leave voluntarily and apply for the proper documents to enter our country can then be allowed back in on a case by case basis. Entry into our country should be a privileage not a right. As a nation we spend billions of our tax dollars on illegal immigration. What about all the American citizens who are homeless, don't have the means to properly support their families, and can't afford even the basic necessities of life. Without illegal immigration to spend money on America could use them billions of dollars to improve the quality of life for all AMERICANS. No other country in the world grants you the rights that illegal immigrants get automatically when they enter this country.
I don't understand people who say that illegal immigrants should have the same rights as our citizens. I defy those who argue that the Bill of Rights applies to all humans who set foot on American soil, no matter how they do it. Please remember that the Bill of Rights is part of our Constitution and defines the rights of American Citizens. It does not apply to any other nation or nationality.
Those who want to participate in our great nation need to immigrate legally period! There is not one other country in the world that tolerates illegal immigration and certainly none that gives illegal immigrants the same privileges and rights as the citizens of that country. And they are not all barbarians.
We (our federal government) are the dummies who allow illegal immigration and pay dearly for it, in the order of billions. We could have health care for all americans (citizens I mean) if we only stopped the financial hemorrhage caused by illegal immigrants (welfare, education, health care, law enforcement and funds shipped tax free to Mexico).
As others have mentioned, certain rights are granted by G-d. My personal belief is that persons not US citizens should be treated with courtesy. But that the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to them. People here illegally should be deported. And incarcerated for a time before deportation, if they return. Perhaps one year in Sherrif Joe's tent city before deportation. I also believe in cutting off all welfare, medical, etc, for illegals. They can get public aid back home if they want. Or they can apply for US citizenship.
Quid-Pro-Quo!
We have the "absolute" right to protect our borders.
The same as Mexico.
Quid-Pro-Quo!
We have the "absolute" right to preotect our borders.
The same as Mexico.
Our rights are ours as human beings. Being an American conveys zero fundamental rights. The purpose of our government is ONLY to defend our rights. That includes freedom of association. Immigration laws violate that right. Indeed, the Constitution does NOT delegate any such power to the federal government. The restrictions mentioned in the Constitution referred the importation of SLAVES. Those who endorse restrictions on my freedom or the freedom of ANY innocent human being is endorsing such slavery. The "rule of law" does not trump morality...or do those who constantly refer to the "rule of law" find themselves prepared to endorse past laws such as the Fugitive Slave Act...and to condemn those who ignored that grossly immoral law.
When you say they have no rights;you are endorsing tyranny ,by supporting the premise that Rights are granted by men ( or Government : still men in any case ) ,and not born with Rights,by virtue of their (or our ) humanity.I (and the Founders ) believe in "Inalienable Rights "; which, are only taken away by Tyrants and never by a just government of the people !
" No man is free until every man is free."
The Bill of Rights defines the rights of human beings, not citizens. The concept of legal or illegal immigration into the US as we understand it would ave been totally alien to the Founding Fathers. The concept of giving police the power to check ID's to see if a person has permission to be in the country is something expect from the Third Reich or the USSR, not the USA.
This injustice is mitigated only by the fact that Arizona is going to Vermont Carry about the same time Arizona's immigration law kicks in. There will be profiling under the Immigration law contrary to what people claim. However, it will be on whether one is healed, not on apparent ethnicity. Any bets?
Anyone really want 11 million criminals disloyal to The United States obtaining firearms?
That's quite an impressive army of very angry criminals, and they all parade foreign contries' flags, some of which are communist countries.
Too many people are thinking with their emotions and not their brains. Sure, it would be nice to allow anyone who wants to to come to this country and make a better life for themseves. But the fact is, it just isn't possible. There are legal citizens that were born here and lived and worked their entire lives here that deserve the rights and freedoms that this country offers far more then some border jumping illegal. I will be the first to recognize the fact that not all illegal immigrants are violent and detrimental to this country...but unfortunately, there are many many many illegal aliens that enter this country illegally, bringing drugs, violent intentions and genral hatred for all free Americans with them. Even if they were all decent people that were just looking for a better life, this country just can't sustain it. We should be taking care of our "legal" American citizens FRIST AND FORMOST!!! All illegals (Mexican and otherwise) should be sent home. The borders should be PERMANTLY sealed so no illegals can get through except through the legal channels. All other issues aside, this needs to be done just to secure the future of this country and its natural born citizens. I applaude Arizona for standing up for whats right and I sincerly hope that the other states will follow suit.
Allen Cogbill has it right.
All men are created equal, and possess certain unalienable rights. He is also right that unalienable rights do not confer any economic privileges or government welfare.
So, although I answered in the negative, that they should not receive Constitutional and Bill of Rights, what I am really saying, which I think is most people's frustration, is that we don't want to financially support illegal aliens any way, anymore, period. The people are in fact, angry.
I believe that the governments utter failure to enforce the laws of our sovereign nation has bred a frustration and pushed the average American to the edge of their tolerance for any illegal immigration activities.
I believe if our border was secured a long time ago (as promised), against illegal crossings of any kind, Americans would be extremely charitable about the people already here. I know I would be.
I think you are seeing this frustration playing out in the poll.
The rights recognized in the constitution of this fine nation and its amendments, are natural rights which are in the best of times the inheritance of all people. There is no way, except in time of war, that people of another country should be treated any differently than citizens of this nation other than in particular instances of privileges restricted to citizens. For instance, aliens, legal or otherwise cannot vote in civic elections or hold public office. Aliens legal or otherwise cannot be subject to the draft as they are presumably citizens of other countries. Having stated these restrictions upon the government, if the aliens are found to be behaving illegally in any manner, they become subject to the same statutes, penalties and obligations relating to obedience to the laws and statutes of the area of residence of citizens with one major difference, the aliens are also subject to deportation in addition to the other penalties.
As others have noted here, the problem with immigration is one of social welfare and entitlements. I find it ironic that an organization not only dedicated to the ideas of G-D given rights but having experience with what happens when a government decides that it is above natural law and decides who lives and dies, and who is "legal" and "illegal" would have such a poll on its website. Is being brown the new yellow star? C'mon, folks, this is a dangerous path you're on.
What about the rights of that rancher in Arizona who found a Mexican laying on the ground on the rancher's property? The rancher turned to go back to his Jeep to get a canteen to give the Mexicon a drink of water, and the Mexicon SHOT HIM! The rancher died a couple days later after calling his neighbors for help! What about the Mexicans who come here, tare down our American Flag, and put up the Mexican flag? Or, the ones who beat the hell out of Americans for wearing a t-shirt with an American Flag? What about the large group of Mexicans with placards demanding free food, a free house and free car; because WE owe it to them for stealing California and other Western states from them? They want everything for nothing, and we cant even afford to pay the people who worked their entire life here? Why isn't the border sealed? It isn't sealed because people in high places WANT the illegals to come here-the more the better! I have to ask myself who benefits by letting everyone just walk right in to our country?
Illegal means illegal.
All this sympathy is being drummed up because these aliens are seen by Democrats as a plethora of new fraudulent voters.
Many Democrats and republicans holding office are either marxist socialist, communist, or compromising cowards. Some of them sit on the fence and test the wind before taking sides; these are the worst because they are not only cowards but they are without moral values. The Governor of Arizona is not one of these. She had the courage to take on a difficult stand and in my opinion she has come out smelling like a rose. God bless her! Illegal aliens should have to carry Identification at all times. They should never be allowed to vote in our elections. Why? Because they are not Americans and are not entitled to our Constitutional privileges. It upset me and most Americans to think that we are educating them, giving them welfare checks etc. while treating our own people as second class citizens. Our Politicians are evil and with the exception of a few should not be voted in again. Vote out the incumbant. Leo Sullivan
'We, the people of the United States, in Congress Assembled - - - ' makes no provision for people other than those belonging to the United States by right of birth or citizenship lawfully granted. While it is arguable that the framers were citizens by rule of 'last man standing', or by right of sword, they took their citizenship very seriously and penned a document which, if adhered to and maintained in the minds and hearts of the people, would cause those not so gifted by the Almighty to consider their own status in their own countries, and work to emulate this Republic and implement the founding doctrines, precepts and Constitution in their own homelands. Sneaking across a border onto American soil, or squeezing out a brat within the United States, confers nothing upon that person.
We should adopt the laws of Mexico as they relate to illegal entry into Mexico-certainly those here from Mexico could not object to equality between the two nations.....
The poll results are absolutely scary and very disappointing. Do people not even read the Declaration of Independence any longer? Endowed by their CREATOR by certain UNALIENABLE rights. GOD given, not just Americans but EVERYONE.
No wonder we have torture and detention of American citizens now. What we allow for one group of people will come to haunt us later. If we don't protect the basic human, God given rights of others, then we won't have those rights for long.
However NO ONE has the right to anything that comes from the plundering of another, but that's NOT what the poll was about.
Illegal means Illegal. Deport all of them!!!!
There are problem with our current immigration policies. However, this is just the periphery of more fundamental flaws with respect to Federal intervention via minimum wages laws, union protections, and welfare entitlements.
A) Welfare entitlements are a burden on the taxpayer and the general productive class. For the most part, it encourages those who are unproductive to continue to be a burden on society and never become productive.
B) Minimum wage laws create unemployment, and therefore put unskilled labor on welfare entitlement rolls. If someone is willing to work for less than minimum wage, why should we care? If minimum wage laws are so good, why shouldn't the minimum wage be $100 an hour?! Really, minimum wage laws are Union protectionism, and lead to wage inflation without corresponding productivity increases. The net effect is to export jobs from this country to those that have lower standards of living.
C) Unions are their own worst enemies. If you can't compete in the world economy, you wish to force the local economy to pay more for less. Net effect is the cost of goods are higher than if you were paid market wages and had to compete with everyone else out there.
D) How can we say that "all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" however, that only applies to US citizens. Do unto others as you would have done to you. Does the Declaration of Independence apply to every human being or just specific one's? I'd argue that you have no comprehension of the founding of this country, nor of the principles of Liberty in general if you cannot answer everyone deserves these protections. It is a slippery slope in which one day, *YOU* will be on the other side of the coin needing those very protections.
Stop entitlements, stop minimum wage laws, end the war on drugs, quit spending money we don't have, quite bailing out companies that deserve to go bankrupt because of bad management decisions, stop killing people in foreign countries, and let's get back to being competitive with respect to world markets.
Enough is enough!
The Bill of Rights does not confer rights onto the people of the U.S. Rather, it simply enumerates some of the rights that those who established the country thought everyone already had. Jefferson termed them inalienable rights. Thus, such rights are considered to be held by all people, not merely citizens of the U.S. (note that, insofar as the Federal government was concerned, the term citizen was not even defined until the 14th Amendment, and the U.S. did not issue passports until the war between the states).
I see absolutely no reason why illegal aliens should not have, as a minimum, all the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. I do, however, note that such does not include the right to a free education, or charity, or welfare, or any other such economic giveaways. Nor does it imply that such aliens have the right to settle in the U.S.
3 Cheers for ARIZONA!!!...passing a law to protect it's citizens...something the Federal Gov't has refused to do!!
It is a shame that the rest of the country has been duped by the inaccurate emotional arguments. This is totally about the Law and expecting EVERYone to obey it. This enabling and rewarding illegals for breaking the law of our Land has got to stop!!
As an Arizonan, I say "Thank you, Gov. Brewer, for having the courage to sign this law !!"
And to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, "Go, Joe !!"