Should surveillance play a role in game protection training of floor staff? (Poll Closed)

I believe at some level Surveillance should be involved. The general misconception over the years is that Surveillance is the first line of defense when in fact we should be the last. It seems like the focus is ensuring that the player rating cards all filled out. While this is clearly important from a Table Games stand point, teaching pit personnel some (not all) of the things to look for helps protect the casino's assets. I have not always believed this, but in times where protecting the assets seems to have taken a back seat to making them, we need all the help we can get.

A we bit of the Surveillance point of view wouldn't hurt with the people on the floor.

we are our company's last line of defense. i can't see why we can't get involved in sharing the front liners what we know on game protection (only as far as they are concerned). anyways, at the end of the day, we see everything that has happened. we can filter out the things that we should and should not share.

In an era where it seems that customer service can sometimes trump game protection, someone should be training them in that area. It seems to be a lost art. At times we have to explain the basic rules of some games to the floor or explain why a game protection procedure is in place. Both of which should not be part of our job...especially when that supervisor makes more than us.

Sadly, the biggest obstacle is when ego's prevent input from others such as Surveillance.

I believe surveillance and casino floor operations need to cross train. Operation personnel that work with surveillance should know what surveillance operators look for, what the're task are, and how they operate. Surveillance needs to work with operations so their surveillance operators understand more about what happens on the floor, and understand the floor procedures. This is especially neccesary for Native American casinos. Cross training will bring both departments closer together.

i fully agree with bill zenders comment.on a recent visit to a number of vegas casino,s ,i was appalled at the performance of the casino pit personel. having worked in both casino pit and surveillance management for many years (26+) and having trained personel in both departments, i concluded that it is of the utmost importance,that both departments need to be fully trained and have a complete understanding of the mechanics of the casino floor/surveillance operations. knowledge is an extemely valuable asset, you cannot have enough of. i also agree with billymetrica,s comment on surveillance wages ,they should be paid the same as the personel they are watching.

Gee... a big call in your opening sentence Bill, the 'old guard' NO FRATERNIZATION AT ANY COST Generals (that trained me) will be rolling in their graves. I agree with you all - as Compliance & Surveillance Manager in my little Casino I not only end the training of new Dealers with 'a big stick' talk about 'we see everything you do' and 'we watch all of you' I also regularly visit the training room (at random) and play at their practice tables making bets over and under the limits, pinching bets, past posting and generally show them the things that THEY can look for (and how not to make a song and dance about things they do see so that we get a chance to get suitable evidence recorded). Past Gaming Floor Trainers here had never explained why clearing of hands and proper chip work was so important - I give them the background on why all the procedures we have are necessary - and I sell it as a protection for them (it's the slack dealers that get the most attention). I cringe at the lack of knowledge of the 'Casino Craft' that the new Pit Bosses etc., coming through the ranks now display (for example, one Pit Boss here didn't know the advantage in Blackjack that players have if they know its an Ace or picture card that that will be the first card to be dealt to them at the beginning of a new round of play - recently when a dealer had pulled a card in error, but told this Pit Boss they thought they hadn't exposed it (and she let that card be used) she couldn't understand why I insisted in the next Pit Boss Meeting that the procedure should be that ALL cards pulled in error under these circumstances (before betting is closed) need to be burned - fortunately the CGM agreed with me and the practice was adopted).

As a thirty-year Surveillance "dude" I've been assisting with the cross-training of Pit Supervisors for at least twenty-five of those. Dealers are not taught to detect cheating. When they are promoted to supervisors, they are usually taught to "market", service, and smooze. They need to be taught to cross-watch the pit just as we in the profession are.

Training? What's that?

When I was Director of Surveillance at a casino in Lake Charles, LA, I put together a training class for Table Games and even had Gaming Agents attend. The topic covered was game protection, from what to look for while they work the game to what to TELL surveillance when they call us so we can be better informed from the call. This was extremely beneficial and even though I am no longer with that company, I am still in contact with people who attended my class and express gratitude for a better understanding of how to protect the game and help the "eye in the sky".