Even the bipartisan Baucus health care bill isn't getting any support from the GOP. What should happen next?

There is no argument that some type of health care reform is needed but the heavy handed approach by the Obama administration is what is causing the deep distrust of the legislation in this country. Pushing a health plan with empty promises of what is in it and what is not without a concrete plan on the table is indicative of a president gone mad with illusions of his own grandeur. Obama has lied about the health care plan from the beginning, that is undeniable. To tell people about what is in a plan and what is not before the plan was even written cannot be called anything else but lying. A thousand pages of gobbledygook that no one can understand is ridiculous.

We need to scrap all this nonsense and develop a comprehensive plan on how to approach health care reform first . Outrages requirements such as insurance companies being forced to accept pre-existing conditions and forcing citizens to get health insurance whether they want it or not will bankrupt the insurance companies and put financial burdens on our citizens. Look at what was proposed yesterday by Baucus. It is no less than tyranny. When you remove the choice that people have tyranny is the result. Where does it stop?

I think the public is fully aware now that this legislation is not about healthcare...it is about control...of our lives...of our resources...and it is about taking another trillion dollars out of the private sector and routing it to the federal government when we're already $10 trillion in debt over the next decade and over $50 trillion in debt by 2050 when the unfunded liabilities for Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are included...and its about a loss of liberty and freedom...eliminating choices we should make in our private lives while giving the government an opening into the most personal and private decisions in our lives. A million patriots made their way to Washington last Saturday to tell the federal government to get out of our lives and give us our resources back...the most popular cheer of the day was "Can You Hear Us Now!!!!"....I hope they do.

Isn't it funny how liberials will shout about losing their civil liberties at the top of their lungs yet they just don't get the fact that they are going to lose even more with this plan!

Let the market take care of it. Take restrictions off the citizens ability to buy insurance from out of state companies.

None of this is a right so why is the government involved?

I simply don’t understand this constant quest for bipartisanship. Conservative extremists have moved the Republican Party so far to the right that it has been decimated in Congress, especially in the House. As a consequence of this extremism, Democrats have clear majorities in the Senate and the House. Why should they compromise? Well, they are Democrats, and they always seek consensus. So they listen to all the screaming from the right and add language to the bill preventing abortion funding, remove the “death panel” language, and add stronger language to prevent undocumented immigrants from getting federal funding. Yet, after all these attempts to compromise and months of negotiating, not a single Republican is supporting the bill. We could have had that outcome last April. I hope Democrats have learned and now push this bill through and get it to the President’s desk.

Ron, the market has failed for health care. The government needs to step in. Markets are great when they work. But markets don't work when it comes to fundamental services like water, electricity, roads, mail, schools and health care.

Democrats need a consensus? When did that start? I have heard Pelosi say this is going to be, we will do this, no consensus there, I M Dem. The government can not handle the programs for all the red tape. Just because people are elected, and this goes for republicans, does not make them specialists on subjects. Our elected officials think they are above the rest of us, do not listen to us and feel they are the only ones with the intelligence enough legislate. They no longer listen to the voters, spew rhetoric during the campaign, then leaves us in the dust after they head for DC.
They need to dump the health care plans to date and start over. Yes, our health care system needs work, no one can deny that, but nationalizing it isn't the answer. Make insurance available to all citizens, make drug companies make drugs and leave the science of new drugs, therapies to labs and universities that get endowments for just that, coming up with new and innovative drugs and therapies.

Time for the government to step in?
The governments track record on running things is just great.
Think Amtrak & the USPS as just two shinning examples of what a wonderful job the government does, when it try’s to run a business.

How about a choice "Government doesn't belong in the Health Care business"? The Federal Government has way overstepped their bounds for many years. People need to study the Constitution. Federal Government has very limited powers. "A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."

I.M.Dem, if the government did such a great job with mail, why has FedEx and UPS been so successful? If it wasn't for the government monopoly on first class mail the USPS would have nothing to do.

Let's not even go to the public school issue. The percentage of students in private schools staying in school and going on to higher education is so much greater than public schools as to make it almost laughable.

Water. Have you compared your water bill to just a few years ago. If I had a choice I would switch to well and septic tank but local government regulations will not allow that.

Markets will work with health care but there is so much government regulation now that it stifles innovation and efficiencies. A recent report highlighted a cancer treatment being developed locally. So far there has been an 80% success rate for destroying tumors, but human trials are years in the future due to unknown long term side effects. If I'm dying with cancer with only 6 months left why would I care about long term side effects? But no government approval for this treatment so I'll be forced to die waiting. That's your health care plan for you! And it will only get worse with even more government control.

I Am Dem: That request that government step in is the way socialism works. Socialism does not happen all at once; just one step at a time. I am trying to prove to you that your logic reflects socialist ideas. Capitalism, on the other hand, is concrete in its need for no government. Anything else is socialist in nature. Change your view-you either want socialism or you don't.

Hey, what about me?...you know, middle class citizen that has to pay for everything! How about listening to us for a change! WE DON'T WANT A HEALTHCARE BILL THAT WILL MAKE US WORSE OFF FINANCIALLY THAN WE ARE NOW!!!! All we seem to get is more taxes, government mandates, and empty promises.

Once again the liberal myth has surfaced that "the market" failed to produce health care for the masses. Nothing could be further from the truth. Government intervention in the market has caused the problems we see. Consider the manditory coverage requirements that both federal and state legislatures add to insurance company requirements. Do you think that drives up costs? What about the prohibitions on buying coverage across state lines. Do you think that reduces competition? What about the exhorbitant cost of medical malpractice insurance, brought to you because the trial lawyers overwhelmingly support Democrats and all want to emulate John Edwards, one of the absolute masters at showing how trial lawyers get rich by suing doctors for make-believe malpractice. What about requirements that emergency rooms treat all comers, including illegal immigrants, regardless of insurance coverage? Are we already paying for that? Legislators caused our problem and now they want us to pay to solve the problem. The Baucus proposal is "only" $880 billion and deficit neutral? His proposal is going to raise taxes, on all of us. He proposes to tax the insurance companies, hoping that we don't understand that when the insurance companies are taxed they just raise prices. It's all a scam. We don't need more govenment involvement, we need less.

The Baucus Bill is a huge disappointment. Where is the public option? There is no way we can keep down cost and keep insurance companies honest unless they have a gun to their head. The public option is that gun. Forget about Republicans, toss out the Senate bill, and pass the House bill! And let's use reconciliation to get it done.

Kathy, that's exactly the plan...they think everyone will be so disgusted with the Baucus Bill that they will gladly settle for the House bill. Hey, we conservatives aren't as stupid as you make us out to be!

If markets worked, we would not have the most expensive health care with the worst outcome. Switzerland is now the most competitive economy in the world, and look at their health care system. That is the model we should emulate.

Kay, we can only hope the Democrats planned it that way. I would give them a lot of credit. My money is on a bill without the public option. You can't get to 60 Senators with it, and the reconciliation process is too messy.

Let's see...
Social Security - A Government Solution to take care of us....7 Trillion Dollars underfunded for its future obligations.

Medicare - A Government Solution to take care of us.....56 Trillion Dollars underfunded for its future obligations.

780 Billion Dollars Stimulus - A Government Solution to stop the job loss and save the economy...urgently passed to save us from collapse, but only 10% has been spent...(why urgent then) Jobs are still going away, economy still weak.

NOW....BASED ON THAT RECORD OF PERFORMANCE - You liberals think that government will FIX the defiiciencies in healthcare? Do you just want to help Barack succeed regardless of what he wants to do to our country? We will all suffer if the democrats pass this plan without details.

Freedom is the biggest loss in this program. Once the government is determining what treatments are allowed, they will prohibit or restrict behaviors to reduce costs...I can envision laws from on high that restrict risky behaviors based on doing what is best for society...(Fast Food, Smoking, Failing to exercise, alcohol, etc...)

After freedom, the next biggest loser will be lives. We will all lose freedoms, many will lose lives.

I simply cannot comprehend how ANYONE who has studied the history of government programs would have any desire to see a government takeover of healthcare. Look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and you see three bankrupt programs, rife with red tape and inefficiencies. Every single nation that has government run healthcare DOES ration. There is simply no way NOT to ration services given the numbers on the program. Polling suggests a large number of doctors indicated they would quit the profession if government run healthcare becomes reality. Private markets always produce better products and better result than anything government. Regardless of how much the left abhors the profit motive, it DOES produce results, and commands efficiency and effective service in order to survive. When "big government" takes over, inefficiencies abound. In a competetive environment, good service is commanded in order to keep patients. In a government-run environment, where they are "the only show in town", no motive existis compelling them to provide professional, efficient, and timely medical services, and you can bet the DMV mentality WILL be the norm.

By the way, I M DEM, polling by a number of reputable polling companies are pretty consistantly showning well over 50% of those polled are well satisfied with the private health coverage they have, and do NOT favor socialized medicine. That's a lot of conservative extremists, I.M.

Why is it that so few people see the tar pit that is the US Government running health care?
The liberals complain that it is not "fair" that they have to pay some portion of their health care bill and want the government to take over so that the cost can be "shared" by all. Do you people not see that that is the definition of Socialism? Socialism has never worked long term. This is how Mexico and the rest of South America got in such bad shape. Socialism is the WHY they used to refer to Sweden as suffering the "Brain Drain" when all its middle class workers - Engineers, doctors, programmers etc - left the country in the '80s.
If we allow the US government to take over health care then that ISSUE will more than dominate ALL elections from here on out. Every election will features politians saying "I'll provide beter coverage at lower cost" and it our quality of care will spiral down and down and the cost will spiral up and up.
How can people not see this truth? Read up on England, Canada, Mexico, France, Ireland, Germany, RUSSIA, and other. Do you think they are just not as smart as the US? Do you think "it will not happen this time?" - NO. I believe it is that you just don't think at all.
This old man has children and grand children. I worry not so much for the here and now but for the dismal future we are creating for them.

Health care in the US is not perfect. Life is not fair. Neither of these facts will improve with the current crop of tax and spend people in Washington. Remember for the most part the money spent in Washington (our money) goes to BUY votes not to fix pr

What are you all worried about? Don't you realize that we are doing this for the children? And the cost? Don't worry about it! That's for the children also.

I Am Dem: The markets do work because the government does not let health insurance agencies provide the health care plans that would be the most logical.

I.M. DEM: What makes you think government is not involved in the "fundamental services" that you mentioned? The power, gas, and telephone companies for instance have been granted a monopoly on those services by means of protected territories mandated by government for starters. Competition is limited if it exists at all. What should happen next with health insurance is that fed gov needs to get out of the way, and I mean all the way so the companies can compete across state lines. This country has not experienced pure Laissez faire capitalism in over 150 years so don't start crying about how free markets don't work! The prosperity this country has enjoyed has been because of the remnants of what capitalism has managed to remain and in spite of our insistance on becoming a socialist nation for the past 150 years. Ours is a mixed economy of a little capitalism and more socialism. Government schools and the mail? Don't make me laugh.

RC, that is exactly what I said. Government is and needs to be involved in these services because the markets have failed. Without the government, these services would not be available to all Americans, just like health care.

Will, I can't make any sense of your sentence.

Ed, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are all broke because we do not charge the users what they actually cost. In other words, we need higher deductions to fund these entitlements.

Mark, look at the economy. The Dow is approaching 10k, and the recession is over. The stimulus worked. Thanks to Obama. No thanks to Republicans.

OldMan, what is so bad about health care dominating elections? It is a fundamental right and moral obligation. It should dominate elections.

Folks the GOP has a solution on the table that neither the democrats nor the media is paying attention to. It has a lot of merit, write your congressman or woman. This is the Medical Rights and Reform Act:

http://dent.house.gov/index.cfm?p=PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=a7b821dc-0079-4ffc-9a42-1371a7d52863&ContentType_id=c6ec3657-dc1e-476f-8d55-369892a8b74d&Group_id=7a83093f-b0df-4c08-affb-9f5cf4ef7c2a

To I.M.Dem,
1. I do not consider it a FUNDAMENTAL right. Fundamental rights are enumerated in the constitution. If you think you have the right to take my tax money and give it to someone else then you are truly a socialist - maybe even a comunist.
2. Dominating elections: Because we will ALWAYS need our fundamental rights protected and if the ONLY issue is healthcare then we will lose our real rights.

You are using wishful thinking if you think health care will not quickly consume 50% of our GDP under Government control. And I will even say more wishing than thinking.

IMDEM,
Don't worry Obama is about to crush that hope of recovery. The new green bill will drastically increase the cost of energy in the US. It increases taxes on gas. It also outlaws coal burning power plants, which BTW are the main source of power in the US. Obama wants everyone to use natural gas, which we will need to import to overcome the shortfall in our supply. Which again will make your power bill more expensive. Experts in the white house have suggested that it will increase a family's power bill by 2000 dollars a year. How much do you think that's going to translate into when you look at a plant that produces goods and services in the US? What happens when their power bill rockets up 100%? That will pass down to you as increased prices for food, US made products, cars etc. Are you going to be able to afford that while paying 9000 dollars a year out of pocket for insurance because your company no longer offers it as it has become too expensive to support their hourly wage and low income employees so they'd rather just pay the fine? So without a pay increase the average family will be paying an extra 11-12 thousand a year out of pocket, plus using the rest to pay for goods and services that are now more expensive.

How do you think that will affect the economy?? You think last years dip was bad?

I.M. Dem: These services would be available to who ever and where ever there is a market for them and at a lower cost without government interference. Government creates the monopoly that we all say we hate so much. No monopoly can exist in a truely free market except for those created by governments. My point is that health care insurance is less affordable because of government involvement and not the lack of it. It is just the same as with the power, phone etc. These companies are restricted to where they can go to sell their wares and others are prohibited from entering a territory. This is competition crushed and industry regulated to death already by government and not the fault of free markets. You and I have never witnessed free market conditions. Not to worry though, even the most hard core so called conservatives will run away from truly free markets every time, just like leftists.

the gop over the bush years did their part in taking my tax dollars and spending it on a lie called iraq. i guess he can be called a socialist or even a communist based on the (old mans) definition. If he agrees with that spending then he is one also. but wait, that does not count.

pratt: yes, the gop are made up of the same kind of folks that the dems are. They be socialists, communists, altruists, racists, bigots, facists, cannabilists, collectivists and old and young farts, but not all of them are that nice!

Pratt,

You know the Brits use the word "pratt" to designate a ... well I won't go there.
There is a lot of things that George Bush did during his tenure that I disagreed with including spending a lot US Blood and Treasure in Iraq but at least one can find a Constitutional basis "Defense" for it.

Socialism is the greatest evil ever invented by man because it SOUNDS and FEELS so good and causes so much misery, suffering and death not to mention the waste of humankind's potential.

Your agreement or disagreement with this fact will not change the sadness of it.

OldMan: Go ahead and say it. I think they only use one t though.

I must be bored.

pratt= short for prattle; definition: a sound that is meaningless, repetitive and suggestive of the chatter of children. to utter or make meaningless sounds. Trifling or empty talk

All of the hullabaloo reminds of when the South went nuts, saying that our freedom, our way of life, and how our tax dollars would skyrocket...when blacks were allowed into the white schools. Change is difficult for the idiots and the socially-blind.

Sorry, but I quit believing in Santa when I was 6

Loafer, Do you mean like this? He prattled on until I was ready to kill myself!

Old Man, to me human rights are more important than any in the U.S. Constitution. Health Care is a fundamental human right.

RC, you are wrong. Had the government not stepped in, much of the rural parts of America would be without electricity, water and mail service.

I.M.Dem, who defines human rights? What are human rights? When does ones rights end and another's begin

I.M. Dem: Yep, that might be right. You need a market for those things just like I said. Move to the city or live the good old country life. It would be our choice in a free society. I don't really see what that has to do with health insurance though. They might not have Mcdonalds or Wal Mart either because there is no market for it. Should the government force them to build there anyway? Some people decide to build their homes on the side of a mountain. When they fall down the mountain should we be forced to rebuild their house or just pay their insurance premiums? There has already been too much stepping in by the gov. Where does it end? We are going broke.

Yes, I.M.Dem. everyone has a right to health care. All they have to do is pay for it!

IMDEM,
What about my human right to benefit from my labor? When the US Government takes money that I have earned without my consent (taxes) for the benefit of others it is tantamount to SLAVERY. I am not talking about the constitutional mandates that the government must meet which is a a legitament use of my taxes.

When socialism takes from those that work and gives to those that won't work - that is as wrong as it gets.

This country DOES NOT owe anyone an education, healthcare or a job IT does owe everyone in it the opportunity to earn all of those and more. The combined governments (Federal, State, County and Municipality) are now taking more than 50% of what I earn - that is just plain wrong. If I had half what is being wrongly taken from me I could easily fund my own retirement, children's education and still have some left to give to charity. - a charity that I choose and not one that funds the things I hate like abortion or promotes fraudulent voting like ACORN!

RC, Americans can live without McDonalds. We can not live without health care. Remember the Constitution? I states clearly that we have an unalienable right to Life.

Senior, I never said health care should be free.

OldMan, congratulations. If you really pay 50% of your income to the various governments, you are among the richest people in America. God blessed you. Now share.

Loafer, read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

I.M.Dem

Are you really that naive?
Did you ever take econ in school? Calculate the price of a loaf of bread - it is nearly 33% tax, tax on Gasoline - Nearly 66%, Income tax, State and Federal, sales tax, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Excise tax on phones, tires, cable, Property tax, Storm water fees, Airport tax. Now the democrates want me to pay taxes on my taxes.

Don't hand me that drivel about paying my share!

I'm all for a statute that allows only taxpayers to vote! Maybe the voters would THINK about who they vote for - wouldn't that be a change.

I.M.DEM: I think someone here already told you that YES, you have a right to health care IF you can afford to pay for it OR if someone wants to give it to you for free! That does not mean that the gov. should be able to FORCE somebody else to pay for your health care though. Good night folks.

OldMan, please show me where you got that data. You may have paid attention in econ, but this is a math problem. Clearly, you missed that class. I will wait for your data and prove you wrong.

RC, so you must also believe that only those who can afford protection should get it, right? Military, police and fire department should only be there for those who can afford them. Well, society does not work that way. You may want protection, and others may want health care. We all pay, and we all receive. Those who pay more also receive more, and the premium we pay through progressive taxation secures that we can maintain and build up our possessions. The system stays balanced because each citizen has one vote. Our Founding Fathers were brilliant, and much of the rest of the western world has copied our system with great success. Now we need to step up and copy some parts of their systems where they have clearly surpassed us.