I think this law is fantastic and a big step forward in the gay community. After all, the way see it is this: so many "straight" people get married each year only to get divorced within a few years if not the same year, why not let the gay folks give marriage a shot? Not to shoot down the straight folks, but they aren't doing that great of a job at! :)
What's next, Two Men and a goat?
A nation stands on its moral fiber. With that said, taking our superior inteligence to over-rule the common sense of biology is a new low for human beings.
Since being gay is all about behavior (genetics only creates the propensity) the courts took it upon themselves to over-rule the will of the moral majority.
Since mankind went the direction of human rights and started saying the sensibility of the few far outweighs the many, we violated the very doctrines of a democracy.
And, when you consider the legalization article in the Times, we have now taken fooling the people to a fine art. Because it is okay to argue the health issues of tobacco and ignore those same impacts of marijuana because of political correctness for the few.
I think that a decision being made by a bunch of liberal judges in a state where most people are social conservatives is just plain wrong. We did not elect these judges, and so they are not representing the interests of the state, only their own agendas. They could have asked the people of the state what we want and it would have been plain and simple. We'd have said no. Marriage is created by God, not by man, and so to take something of his invention and use it for something that he calls an abomination is just wrong. God also gave us the rainbow, so maybe all of these gay rights activists should consider that before talking about the "God Squad". Put it up to a vote, don't just tell us what is ok based off of your own agenda.
The gay mafia has won another victory in the courts. The citizens of Iowa need to take back their state. Marriage is not a natural right and the definition should not be morphed to meet the agenda of any group. Marriage is between one man and one woman. One plus one is two and the sky is blue, too.
I think this is a beautiful day for this state. Why not let them suffer with the rest of us? A gay couple deserves the same rights as any other, because it says that in the Bible does not mean it should be the ruling over this country. Separation of Church and State. Who gives anyone the right to tell any other human being what they can and cannot do? A gay couple being married does not affect you personally, it only allows them to have the same rights that you do. By denying these people marriage is not going to stop them from being gay. "You mean I can't get legally married? Dang, guess I'm just going to follow the "moral" majority and go straight just so I can get tax benefits."
I have friends who are gay, but I do not feel that their "commitment" to their same-sex partner should be considered equal to the marriage between me and my wife. Call it anything but marriage. I don't want it taught in schools, as I have small children. If they legalize same-sex marriages, they might just as well legalize polygamy.
It's just not right..... I'm disappointed.
This is the recognition that the states, with the equal protection clause, cannot extend a civil right to one group while denying it to another.
If marriage is a religious act, then it should not be a responsibiliity of the states IN ANY CASE.
If marriage is a civilly recognized act, then the state cannot stand in the way of any persons who wish to explicitly tie their lives, their families, and their assets together.
The Iowa court recognized this means government should have no preference/recognition for any religiously performed act in the fair and balanced execution of its civil jurisprudence.
But states won't give up the marriage/civil union business -- it means money. So there's hypocrisy for you.
"One could easily argue, and we do, that fostering same-sex marriage will harm the institution of marriage as we know it"
You can argue that? Well then, let's hear that argument. I have only heard that conclusion so far, with no evidence or reasons why letting gays marry would harm marriage.
If you still think it's an easy argument, how about defending this statement?
"One could easily argue, and we do, that fostering **interracial** marriage will harm the institution of marriage as we know it"
It was the same issue in the 70s, and it's not different today.
====================================
So when do we legalize polygamy, incest and pedophile marriage?
The courts seem to be arbitrary with homosexuals and not these other groups.
====================================
Foolishness -- Why don't you show your remark to your "gay friends" how they feel about your friendship now?
Wow, what's this country coming to when middle America rules for gay marriage. I'm tired of small groups of Americans pushing their agenda on conservative America. (this country is still mostly conservative). Our nations founders are rolling in their graves. Sad.
Iowa has many liberal acivists, mostly clustered around the University of Iowa, and they will not give-in to any conservative thought if there is any chance they can enforce their agenda. This is a fight to the death (not literally) and the majority of the good people of Iowa have to stand up to this activist minority and change the constitution to take away the only tool the egg-heads have. Good luck to the real Iowa.
If this stands, polygamy is next--no question about it--it's the same legal argument. Maybe I need a bigger house.
One comment was "I think this law is fantastic", which is a problem in that 1) the activist court is making law, a legislative function and 2) that it makes legitimate what is illegitimate and perverse. If "equal protection" is invoked for this, why not say the same to polygamy, and polyandry?
This more evidence that the country is doomed. If same sex partners can marry, than any number can also marry, so if there is no reason to limit the sex, then there is even less to limit the number. But we can blame only the low regard heteros have of marriage - they behave like it means nothing, and our culture has disreagarded marriage for a hundred years now - so why shouldn't "gays" ask.
Morals don't automatically equal biblical text. Everyone should remember that there are many more important things going on in the world; stop worrying about gay marriage and start worrying about, oh I don't know, the economic crisis, devestating floods in ND, genocide in Darfur, skyrocketing crime rates, rampant infidelity.... Your own discomfort with same sex marriage is NOTHING compared to actual suffering and injustice that takes place every day.
Wow, first socialism, and now this. This country is doomed!
Since being gay is all about behavior... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...Marriage is created by God, not by man...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...It's just not right..BLAH,BLAH,BLAH. Equality under the law is protected by the constitution. Get over it!
Thank you to the reasonable people in the state of Iowa. Gay people just want the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. You will see that this decision does not erode straight people's rights, but strengthens the whole fabric of society. If you don't agree with it, then don't marry another person of the same sex! We are not "teaching" anything other than this is Iowa and we respect freedom of choice. And we hate goats just as much as the next person! lol Lighten up!
I think that this is absolutely wonderful! I am so glad the Iowa has taken this giant leap forward! It is exactly what the midwest needed! Now hopefully other midwestern states will look at this and follow in Iowa's footsteps. Our country is wising up, even being a Catholic I will fight for gay marriage until the rights are finally equal for straights and gays. FINALLY! :)
What an OUTRAGE! Next thing you know, they'll be freeing slaves! Then it's just a slippery slope to black voting rights, women's suffrage, and equal pay in the work place! I am very disappointed in the Iowan legislature's inability to see that some kinds of people just deserve to be oppressed. It's not like they're guaranteed to equal treatment under the law or anything.
Honestly, the gay marriage issue is not for the wide community to pass judgment on. Homosexual couples receiving marriage licenses does not infringe on ANYONE'S rights. When a group of people (majority or no) are deluded enough into thinking that it does infringe on their rights, they cannot be allowed to make the decision for everyone else. A ruling such as this only enforces my support of the democratic republic system of the U.S. and its constituating states. They're there to make the decision for us when we're too stupid to make it ourselves. Separation of State and Religion, the Civil Rights AND Civil Liberties movements have seen a great victory today -- I can only hope it continues on this trend.
Wow! Who'd have thunk Iowa would be on the cutting edge? From these comments, I can see there's still a lot of poorly educated trailer trash out there, but nice work to those of you who got this ridiculaous law overturned! And as far as polygamy, maybe it should be. As long as all parties are agreeable, it's really no one elses business! Go Cornhuslkers!
I think this is fabulous. I am a heterosexual woman, and am married with two kids. I try to teach my children to be open minded and not think in this silly little box that says things have to be a certain way. Love should be the reason why people get married, who cares if it happens to be two people of the same sex? It doesn't hurt anything... we are all human beings and it's just so discouraging to think that heterosexuals are scared of "ruining the sanctity of marriage" as I've read in previous articles. What about just being happy? Why can't we all just mind our own business? And I say that not with anger, but with sadness that we can't simply look beyond differences and just be. I am very happy this decision was made, and hope it starts a trend.
I hope the good folks of Iowa will have a chance to vote on this issue at the ballot box. Here in Massachusetts, after gathering a record number of valid signature to have such a proposition on the ballot, the Democrat run Legislature, the Democrat Governor and 100% of our Congressional delegation (all Democrats) in concert with the Teachers Union, prevented "We the People" from voting on this issue. Good Luck Iowans!
Now I am going to teach my children to disrespect gays and treat them with hate, to counter balance the crime against nature these freaks advocate and will continue to teach our children is "normal" to do. They are just adults that as kids as love issues with parents and do not deserve the ability to devalue what my wife and I share.......ELIMINATE GAYS
Today the liberal perverts won a victory and are celebrating. Tomorrow God will judge, it will be interesting to see if they can really dance in Hell.
I can't wait until all these gay people stand before God. This sin they call a right will be paid at a price. I'm glad I won't have to answer God for their sin. It says in Bible God gave them up for their vile behavior and send them to hell if they don't turn from their sin. God is a gracious God but not that gracious.
The man with the sign in the photograph is incorrect, animals in nature do display homosexuality, but it was nice of him to compare two consenting adults to animals. There isn't a big conspiracy here. There isn't a gay mafia or some liberal agenda at work. Times are changing and as more and more people come out of the closet and live their lives the way that they were created, by God, the more that others around them will challenge and change their beliefs and have to decide for themselves if they want to let people that they love, who happen to be gay, to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Social conservatives are on the wrong side of this argument. Cherry picking the Old Testament and basing your views on Paul's observations on some debaucherous people 2000 years ago is no reason to denying freedom to gay individuals in America today, a secular society. A world without same-sex marriage is a world where people are validating hatred and people are meant to feel ashamed (and sometimes suicidal) for being different. A world with same-sex marriage means more stable relationships, more families, more love. Why would social conservatives be against that? CUZ THE BIBLE SAYS SO. pfft
annaulment can only take place if the marriage was not consumated with intercourse. Therefore in order for a marriage to be valid intercourse must have taken place. Intercourse is the interaction of MALE and FEMALE sex organs. Therefore, without a MALE and a FEMALE no marriage can ever be thought of as valid with out intercourse. The anus is not a sex organ, the vagina has natural lubrication and is a reproductive organ. The anus is where tirds come out and is in no way what so ever a sex organ. I fail to see how anyone can think gay marriage is LEGALLY possible, let alone right.
BURN THE GAYS THEN DROWN THEM THEN HANG THEM THEN PISS ON THEM.....they all have some burried psychological cause for their CHOICE of homosexuality. If this garbage comes to Ohio I swear on my life I am going to marry my business partner so we both get these tax breaks and I hope we become the poster for why the whole concept is ludicris. In case it isn't clear I'm not gay, but will certainly take a tax break......especially since HUSSEIN lied about giving everyone one
Than why not let God Judge me?
Last I checked none of the gay bashers and equal rights haters were God...so just get on with your life, and I'll "pay me price" for love when I need to. Until then, back off.
To all of you speaking words of hate about homosexuality, shut up. Just because it is wrong doesn't mean that you need to sin by hating them in your heart. The bible also says that if you hate someone you are guilty of murdering them. Do not speak words of hate and try to say that you are representing my God. God looves everyone equally, no matter what their sin, and that includes homosexuals. This is not an issue of who is better than who, or anyone being uncomfortable with something that's different. This is a matter of the fact that the bible says something is wrong, and so I will not advocate it any more than I would advocate a law that allows prostitution or cheating on your taxes. And to the people who are on the other side, Conservative Iowa is not a bunch of hicks and trailer trash. I was raised in Des Moines, and attend a very good university, so please do not try to invalidate the comments of conservatives by making us out ti be hillbillies. And HOW DARE YOU compare your issue to that of slavery or womens' rights!? There is a huge difference between something that you cannot choose, such as you gender or your race, and something you can choose, such as who you sleep with or marry. When this becomes an issue of love let me know, but so far I haven't met any gay couples that seem to love each other that much, and the infidelity rate in homosexual couples that stay together for five years or more is 95%, so tell me where the love is when you are obviously so consumed woth lust that you cannot stay loyal to your partner?
I LOVE my dog more than 99% of the people on this earth, does that mean I can marry her and get her health insurance and myself a tax break.....BURN THEM ALL FAGS
This is an incredibly important issue and people feel very strongly about it. It should be voted on by the people not determined by appointed Judges. This is exactly what I think is wrong with the democratic argument. If you can't win by the vote of the people send it to the Courts. That is the wrong answer and it bypasses the will of the people. But then again, if the people voted to approve Gay Marriage then I would accept that even though I believe marriage to be between a man and a woman. But the people in this case were not given the chance. The courts need to quit legislating from the bench, the congress needs to stop blocking legislation and the people need to have their say. A few should not determine the voice of the many.
To every person who cries "Oh noes! They'll be marring dogs next" or "Oh they'll be polygamy and pedophiles getting married next!" : Marriage is between TWO (2) CONSENTING ADULTS. Let me spell this out for the mouth-breathers. "CONSENTING" means that both persons agree. Dogs and goats can NOT consent. Neither can children because they are not ADULTS. CONSENTING ADULTS. So just keep crying about marrying animals so the rest of the world can exactly how intellectually stunted those who oppose the legalization of gay marriage actually are.
For those of you who think this is a slippery slope into Polygamy, bestiality, or incest...think for a second.
Polygamy is a relationship of one to MANY. Marriage is already defined as a one to one relationship. Bestiality is cross species, there is no legal wiggle room to allow this. First you would have to legally establish that other species have the same rights as humans, THEN start the whole marriage argument. Incest is already illegal, and its state of legality is not based on its qualification for marriage.
Trying to confuse the issue (a human rights issue) with ridiculous legal non-issues (can an animal marry a person, can I marry my sister) is disingenuous.
No one wants to force the Church to redefine their definition of marriage. In the same breath, the Church's definition has no bearing on the definition of a LEGAL CONCEPT. You cannot legally restrict lawful citizens from willfully entering a legal contract, which is what marriage is in the eyes OF THE LAW.
Your faith based marriages are not being attacked, they are not being changed, and they are not being removed. The LEGALLY RECOGNIZED portions of them are being extended to people who qualify for them on all terms EXCEPT the RELIGIOUS basis of sexual composition.
If your arguments are based on the child raising aspects, then we have MANY other issues that seem to get glazed over to push an agenda. If the sexual composition of marriage needs to be preserved because that's what is needed to raise a child properly, then using the same logic, you shouldn't be able to get married if you can't, or won't, have children. If you are a single parent, you should have your child taken away because your family unit doesn't match the required composition.
The definition of marriage route based on child rearing is its own slippery slope. Do we start legislating how many kids you can have based on the viability of raising them properly? Do we begin legislating the age at which you can start having kids because of aggregate maturity levels?
Let the law be the law, and your religion be your religion. Your BELIEFS are not LAWS, and LAWS can't legislate you into having FAITH.
Humanity is based upon a man and a woman working together to raise the next generation. We're going to raise a generation of confused social misfits when we have two men or two women acting as parents. Nevertheless, we are still commanded by God to treat all people as equal. A homosexual is still a person, even though they are deeply confused. To create special "rights" for homosexuals is no different than creating special rights for child molestors, drunks or those who engage in bestiality. Homosexuality is abberant and deviant behavior that is destructive to the human race. But again, all people are created equal and are to be treated with respect, yet the definition of marriage must remain limited to one man and one woman.
I think this is great. How you people think that same sex marriage is comparable to polygamy or two men and a goat is beyond me and just plain retarded. I am getting married in a few months to my opposite sex fiance and think that two same sex individuals getting to express their love in the same way that I am is great. We are a forward moving nation and this is just one step toward a greater goal.
Most often we cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we have a choice what we do about it. We are not barnyard animals. Researchers have found that some homosexuals' orientation can be altered. No one would seriously make that same argument about race. So the two are differenct. This court decision equates the two, thereby making it an assault on reason as much as traditional marriage. A very small, very vocal majority, most of whom have never given rat's rear end about the institution of marriage, are now fundamentally changing it, and with potentially devastating societal consequences. These same types of activists began their assault on the institution of marriage in the '60's and just look at the carnage they've caused. The legitimization of polygamy and other forms of sexual expression cannot be far behind.
Have you every checked out the gay chat sites? Most of the guys on there are married "straight" guys cruising for sex - hmm - Now remind me just how "sacred" is same sex marriage!
There are restrictions on marraige,ie: siblings, cousins, more than one spouse and yes, same sex. What rights are being taken away? Homosexuals can marry someone of the opposite sex. They say they should be able to marry whomever they want. Because of the restrictions on marraige, a heteralsexual cannot marry whomever they want. It seems to me that the homosexual community don't want equal rights. They want special rights.
As an atheist, I find it really stupid when "religious" people try to justify suppressing others' desires and/or rights with doctrines. Get over it! Same-sex marriage is finally allowed in Iowa! I'm not gay myself, but I support this vehemently. As others have said numerous times, if you don't like gay marriage, then just don't get one!
Forgive them for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:24)
God may have abandoned the USA. If we do not know their fate would He not apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah? (Genesis 19) How long, O Lord? (Revelation 5:9-11)
We, to whom He has blessed with the revelation of Truth (Romans 1:17-19), will suffer both the indignities from the blind unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4) as well as suffer with them in His wrath. Rejoice! (Philippians 4:4) We suffer for His sake. (Matthew 5: 10-12) Be strong, be courageous! (Joshua 1:7-9) Keep praying and keep witnessing His truth seasoned with grace. (Colossians 4:5-7) May God reveal Truth to them. (John 17) May God have mercy upon them.
History will record this as another step in the decline and fall of the US into increasing decadence, debauchery and immorality (i.e. Israel, Greece, Roman Empire, …ages of others). Fear not! His story already records His final victory. Then even these judges will bow their knees and proclaim Him as Lord. (Philippians 2:9-11) History is His Story!
Even so, Lord, come quickly! (Revelation 22:19-21) Maranatha! (1 Corinthians 16:21-22)
""Researchers have found that some homosexuals' orientation can be altered. No one would seriously make that same argument about race.""
Is that so Mark? Have you been living under a rock since the early 80s? It certainly seems to me that a certain "King of Pop" has achieved just that.
You idiots; this means polygomy is legal in IA, it didn't say same sex marriage legal. Yet again, more evidence that IOWA = Idiots Out Wandering Around.
As a religious person, a gay man, and an adoptive parent, this comes as wonderful news to me. The argument that gay marriage goes against religion is disingenuous and irrelevant.
It's crazy talk to say that legalized same sex marriage will force churches to perform same sex marriages. That will happen only if a given church wants to perform them. There are over three million American Episcopalians, over one million American United Church of Christ members, and half a million American Unitarian Universalists (to name just three denominations where same sex marriage is accepted as valid.)
Religious fundamentalists are learning that they cannot control the secular world. If they would only just try to understand our secular legislative system they would understand that while they do not have this control, they ARE protected within their churches from any mandate requiring them to embrace same sex marriage.
No one should impose their religious beliefs on another - this works in both directions. Within Christianity, and in all other faiths, there is a spectrum of values and beliefs that ranges from conservative to liberal that must be respected by everyone if our country is to remain the free society that we all love.
The moment that same sex marriage became legal in Massachusetts, my minister was happy and willing (and authorized) to perform same sex weddings AND sign the couples' marriage licenses.
Suffice it to say that religious folks of any persuasion can create, and become members of religious communities that embrace any beliefs they want, but they can't and shouldn't impose those beliefs on others, at least not while calling themselves Americans. I have no need or desire to impose same sex marriage on people who detest it for religious reasons and I deserve the same respect for my religious views.
Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands). 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs. Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population. The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75. The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79.There is a notable homosexual group known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States. Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor. * The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" . Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives". Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion". Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness". Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range. Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above. Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?
The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of African-Americans is $12,166.00. 49.0%of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where's the job discrimination?
WOW! All I can say is WOW! I've never been to Iowa, nor do I know anyone from Iowa. But all I know is that today, I am proud to be a Haitian-American woman. As such, I join forward-thinking Iowans in their rejoicing and I hope that soon my home state (New York) will also recognize the rights of all individuals to live happily.
Corny, yes, but it's just how I feel. I'm so happy for you all! Go and be merry and most of all: KEEP YOUR HEAD UP, for hatred is not eternal!
Que Dieu vous benisse tous/toutes ! Je vous aime !
So now we need start looking out for the rights of people who want to marry their pets!
Evan, cite your sources if you expect to be taken seriously.
Funny post Evan! But what in the world does it have to do with same sex marriage. LOL.
If protecting marriage is such a high priority for people, why not outlaw divorce? Religious arguments have little merit when it comes to Rights that ALL Americans are entitled to under the Constitution. The courts exist to protect minorites from "the will of the people" otherwise slavery would probably still be legal.
Evan- funny you have seem to have an agend- Hatred, which I don't think GOD ever promoted. And by the way your facts are completely wrong, next time try citing something. Your ignorance is laughable.
Way to go Iowa!
In our Constitution, our for fathers wrote that God gives us unalienable rights, and these rights align with Gods commandments and the word of the Holy Bible. Homosexuality is what we heterosexuals consider to be an abnormal state. I work with them (homosexuals), have normal conversations with them and respect their feelings as individuals. The creation of normal between a male and female is God's perfection between human beings and animals in the whole universe. Homosexuality is an abnormal sexual relationship that occurred long after creation of man, and in a way it is a cruel form of what can happen due to an unusual circumstance, or physiological occurrence. My only beef is the definition of marriage since the beginning of mankind has always been in the framework of creating a family in by living a heterosexual life, and as a heterosexual it is a right, and yet the a small minority of homosexual organizations want to stomp all over our rights as heterosexuals.
My only wish is that these same homosexual organizations would respect the rights of parents, both homosexual and heterosexual to allow the confirmation of sexuality take its course with outside interference or influence. In today's world and our nation there are many distractions and uncertainties for our children's minds to comprehend, do not press upon them that they may want to entertain the thought of being considered homosexual because they are confused about their sexuality. In some cases homosexuality is actually a state of mind and the cause is due to an outside circumstance and not the cause of neurological situation. Those individuals if given a chance find they truly can live a normal heterosexual life, and affirm that marriage is a God given right between a man and a women.
This judgement makes me happy. I live in MN and hope we adopt the same legislation here. It's sad to read that some people are so upset about this.
I am glad to know that people have thoughts on the subject but am saddened by all the hate that I'm hearing. Either way, this is very progressive and hope it starts a trend in the US. I'm proud to be an America.
This simply is not right. Marriage is between a man and a woman. A civil union should be offered for same-sex couples who are entitled to rights that are not available to them now. To say that a same-sex "marriage" is the same as a marriage between a man and a woman smacks in the face of common sense. A little courage, discipline, and common sense from the supreme court would be nice for a change.
This is sad. Homosex is vile and disgusting. Homoz are perverts.
We've lost our morals. Where does it end,does anyone think about that?
This is not a case of a judiciary confiscating power from the legislature. The main funtion of a judicial body is to interpret law, as is the case in this instance. The Supreme Court has interpretted the constitution as defending the equal rights of all citizens, without any religious considersations whatsoever (see "Establishment Clause", Amendment I to the Constitution).
Aside from this fact, which is clearly outlined in Article III of the United States Constitution and easily understood to anyone who made it past the 6th grade, it is unbelievable to this observer that the good people of Iowa would be taken in by politicians' foolish attempts to side-track them with a hot-button issue that only effects the people who AREN'T allowed to get married and no one else.
The truth of the matter is this. Every state that has adopted similar jurisprudence or legislation has had an equal amount of hesitantcy and opposition from the moral "majority" (leads me to wonder what exactly constitutes a majority these days). Do you know what happened there? THEY FORGOT ABOUT IT. Give it a year and all those opposed to this fair and just ruling will move onto the next thing that scares the daylights out of them -like kids on skateboards or that dang-fangled rap music. Until then, I wish all Iowans a blessed day and a pleasant tomorrow.
I guess I am going to marry 5 women then. I love liberals. They take away all accountability and responsibility! It's like a free for all!!!! The gov't will take care of us. AIDS should be shared. Spread the wealth and the disease. I hope IOWA burns. You ever seen the 10 commandments? Those plagues will soon be theirs:) But at least they get to save on their taxes now... And they get to show the world that they are "The same as the normal people". Isn't that an oxy-moron? The toilet was officially flushed on Jan 20th, now we are just riding out the crap...
I am incredibly pleased to be an Iowan today! To those who are under the misconception that being gay is somehow a "choice": at what point in your life did you choose to be straight? But anyway, everyone knows that bigotry can't be affected by logic or silly things like "basic human rights", so I suppose it's a losing battle.
Congratulations to all of those who are now able to marry the adult that you love, and know that the majority of Iowans support you.
I'm very happy that my 6 year marriage (and others soon to come) is finally recognized as being about LOVE! Hurray equality! Hurray Iowa!
What is unconstitutional is the Supreme Court making laws!
"....funny you have seem to have an agend- Hatred, which I don't think GOD ever promoted...."
And this just proves - you do not know God. I can detest and yes - even hate this sin - just as God does...
There is no stopping the homosexual agenda unless we work to overthrow the very institutions that are empowering it. The nation has become infected with a self-destructive ideology that will not be vanquished by judicial or legislative means. This ideology will continue to be forced onto the rest of the us by pro-homosexual writers, producers, and directors in the entertainment industry...and by pro-homosexual interests in our governments and schools. Our efforts to fight this peacefully are continually underminded by the supportive messages in media, TV, movies that we allow into our homes to be viewed by the very families we are trying to protect. To borrow a phrase from our pro-homosexual Administration, the time has come to push the RESET button on the United States itself. When limbs are infected with gangrene it becomes necessary to cut them off before the infection reaches vital organs and kills the whole body. Its a drastic action, but one that is necessary for survival. Let the revolution begin!
Some of these comments would be laughable if they weren't so filled with ignorance and hatred.
The same God whose name you now invoke was used by your parents and grandparents against black people when they got out of line. Now it's your turn to do the same against gay people
Some of these biblical quotations are so inaccurate that I find it hard to believe that many of you people have actually read the bible. Jesus had plenty to say about divorce but said nothing about gays.
If you are truly concerned about children and the family then you should be far more upset about divorce rates and single-parent households, both of which are doing far more damage than gay marriage ever will. Massachussetts has had gay marriage for years now and that state's divorce rate is lower than Iowa.
Just so sad at how people are so content to just wallow in their ignorance, fear and hatred.
Homosex is vile and disgusting. Homoz are perverts.
ELIMINATE GAYS
BURN THEM ALL FAGS
And I could have quoted a lot more.
I disagree with this decision. But disagreeing does not justify the above comments and many like them.
If those making such negative statement think they are Christians they are going to be really surprised when Jesus returns. Jesus commands love for all, not only those you disagree with but even your enemies. "Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.
You may not like the decision but hate is not the answer.
Even though I believe this lifestyle is disgusting and repulsive, they (queers) have a constitutional right to live their life they way they want. So yes, I agree with the court.
What really gets me about all this is that you people are using such rational arguments on this, and then BAM! Right out of left field you pull out even more nonsense about god (lower case 'G' intentional), completely negating any potential chance at being taken seriously.
It just doesn't make any sense. People who are otherwise so rational about EVERYTHING, but when it comes to crap like this you just throw your capacity for free thought out the window.
You know that if you were born in Afghanistan, you'd most likely be a Muslim, and would see the world a VERY different way. I was born in America, a land that gives me the right in the ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION to be affiliated with whatever religion I so chose. I happen to be an Atheist, for example. According to the Constitution of the United States, I am perfectly free to be so. Consequently, I find it a little hard for me to take life directions from a 2000 year old book that has been the basis for.... who the hell knows how many wars on the planet.
As Christians, you all have the right to have your religious choices defended. But when it comes to infringing on the rights of others, I'm marginally sure that's not going to fly.
You, as Christians, feel that because your religious doctrine states homosexuality is an abomination, that NOBODY should be allowed to participate. What about Atheists? They sure as hell don't hold that little book in such high regard. What about our rights? Because I don't believe the same things you believe, I should have my rights taken away from me?
I'm not gay, but I sure hope you can see where I'm going with this... Just because someone is different from you, doesn't make them bad people.
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
If you are disagree with this then your argument is not with Christians, its with the Almighty.
It is really easy to justify something evil as equality and fairness when you call yourself and Atheist. No God = No Morals, No Values, and No Integrity. No God = No Consequences. This is how they justify their behavior. First its marriage next comes religion. Wake Up American and Stand up for the Principles that made this Country.!!!
Hey,
Don't forget to add eating pork and shellfish, not having a beard, along with allowing a menstrating woman in the same room to your list of Old Testament "abominations".
I also think that someone who curses their parents is supposed to be stoned to death, according to the bible.
Why are Christians so completely insane?
One of the smartest moves that the gay rights agenda has done is promote itself as somehow equivalent to the civil rights movement (blacks) in America. It is not a sin to be black. It is sinful to be gay.
I love it when people who don't even believe in the Bible throw verses back at Christians, i.e. (judging and throwing stones). Jesus did not "sit on his hands" while He was here. He called sin what it was-sin.
I love this, now try to stop ME from haveing FIVE or SIX partners.
What a GREAT DAY
Hey Craig,
Unless you know the context of what you are discussing, you would probably look smarter if you just didn't comment. There are different types of "laws" in the Old Testament. Go to your local motel, dust off the Gideon's Bible and do your homework. You are one of the people that JOSH is talking about.
You phony Christians invoking the wrath of God and the specter of hell are HYPOCRITES - you will disregard every lesson of love and even turn against your own family - I have seen the role hatred and ignorance and intolerance you will have for your fellow neighbors, brothers and sisters in God. You are NOT religious - your religion is as much of a commodity as anything else in America and that is the truly sick joke. There are tons of people, by the way, who have reservations which blur the boundary between homophobia and sincere belief, but some of the comments on this show that the sincere belief has at its center an unstable core of hatred for life and fellow human beings.
Let me understand. Non-Christians are not supposed to use biblical quotes to show how inconsistent some beliefs are. Yet, even though they don't believe in the bible they are still supposed to be bound by its contents?
Welcome to the American Taliban!
"being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;"
Take a pick of any of those, and tell me the government is not guilty of them. I dare you.
"It is really easy to justify something evil as equality and fairness when you call yourself and Atheist. No God = No Morals, No Values, and No Integrity. No God = No Consequences. This is how they justify their behavior. First its marriage next comes religion. Wake Up American and Stand up for the Principles that made this Country.!!!"
-Go read up on your Thomas Jefferson and see what he has to say on the subject of religion.
So, as an Atheist, I am completely void of any morals, values, and/or integrity -- gosh.... when was the last time I killed someone in the name of God... threw acid in the face of a rape victim for committing adultery... molested a little boy IN CHURCH... I can go on if I must...
there was that time when hundreds of thousands (or even A person) was killed in the name of evolution (murder)
"Hey, Don't forget to add eating pork and shellfish, not having a beard, along with allowing a menstrating woman in the same room to your list of Old Testament "abominations". I also think that someone who curses their parents is supposed to be stoned to death, according to the bible. Why are Christians so completely insane?"
-Let's not forget that I could sell my daughter, burn my mother to death for wearing something comprised of two different cloth, stone my friend to death for planting two different crops in the same field... this sounding familiar, Christians, or did you conveniently skip over all of this in the Bible to single out the part about homosexuality...
Yes, there are certainly different types of laws in the bible. There are the ones that Christians conveniently ignore because they don't like them and then there are those they use against others that they don't like.
Did I miss anything?
"Jesus did not "sit on his hands" while He was here. He called sin what it was-sin."
He also said to not judge people, as he would take care of that when the time comes
So if "marriage [is] no longer limited to one man, one woman" then polygamy is legal, as would be inter-family marriages, right? That's the problem, this creates a slippery slope where marriage will eventually become meaningless.
The Bible is not inconsistent. However, if you pick and choose verses out of context, you can make it seem inconsistent. Thanks for the "American Taliban" comment. Speaking of inconsistent...how is it that you are accusing Christians of being intolerant and yet are so quick to place me on the same level as the Taliban.
Oh, Evan....what are we going to do with you??? Your post is a mess and doesn't make any sense. Silly, silly Evan. Poor thing.
"The Bible is not inconsistent. However, if you pick and choose verses out of context, you can make it seem inconsistent. Thanks for the "American Taliban" comment. Speaking of inconsistent...how is it that you are accusing Christians of being intolerant and yet are so quick to place me on the same level as the Taliban." --- Wanting to keep people from their rights because they differ from what you believe... hmm... I wonder why he equated you to a fanatical group
Ok, Bubba. Your sister shes a' waitin' in her purtty wedding dress. Go git her boy!
"That's the problem, this creates a slippery slope where marriage will eventually become meaningless." --- Eventually? How many marriages end in divorce these days? Is it over half yet? I know it was pretty close
The bible says homosexuals are an abomination (read Laviticus 18:22).
The problem is religion is a relationship with emotion, tradition, and superstition. It's all made up by people depending on their own environment. So arguing about religion is just futile nonsense, as its not fact - - its emotional fiction.
Marriage (today) is a only legal contract, calling it anything more is just pretending. The problem is what regular kid wants homos for parents?
U.S. was a tyrrany of the majority, now its a tyrrany of the loud and proud.
Abortion kills a baby but its legal. That is a real issue. Homos getting married = no big deal unless you are one of their adopted kids at sports or school functions. no thanks.
Hey look at the bright side, now you can marry cousins, siblings, and polygimy as that is the same argument as homos. Just be sure to adopt if you are related to avoid birth
It is no coincidence that the same people making comments supporting gay marriage are also attacking the comments made by Christians. The sheeps clothing is falling off...
"It is no coincidence that the same people making comments supporting gay marriage are also attacking the comments made by Christians. The sheeps clothing is falling off..." --- Being told that because I'm an atheist and support gay marriage, I have no morals, values, or integrity -- Pretty strong judgement coming from a Christian.
Josh said: "It is not a sin to be black. It is sinful to be gay."
Good grief Josh, perhaps it's sinful in your church or religion to be gay, but not in America. So, you go to your church, and I'll go to mine, but when we meet in the public square, we're just Americans...and we allow each other to pursue happiness and be ourselves. Yes, I know you're worried about salvation, but yiping at gay people about sin isn't going to get you saved.
It is no coincidence that the same people making comments suporting hetero-only marriage are also attacking the comments made by gay people. The sheep's clothing is falling off...
Hey Joe L. Why is it when you make a comment about something its just a comment, but when a Christian makes a comment he is "judging"?
Get it right, I've never heard of the book "Laviticus". What religion is that from? Have you ever heard of high school?
How ridiculous. I would have had less problem with calling it a civil union. When you call it "marriage", it opens up a whole can of worms. And it WILL be just a matter of time now before someone sues to marry more than one person, or until someone sues so that they can marry their brother or sister. We cannot discriminate against THEM, can we? We need an amendment to the Iowa Constitution to fix this.
In this context, I'd say the two are pretty much synonymous. The one big difference though, is that I'm not basing my life style off an antiquated book that specifically tells me to not judge people
BGDad
2009-04-03 18:02:14 ET
Josh said: "It is not a sin to be black. It is sinful to be gay." Good grief Josh, perhaps it's sinful in your church or religion to be gay, but not in America. So, you go to your church, and I'll go to mine, but when we meet in the public square, we're just Americans...and we allow each other to pursue happiness and be ourselves. Yes, I know you're worried about salvation, but yiping at gay people about sin isn't going to get you saved.
God says its sin, not me. Your problem is with Him, not me. A court ruling that states that homosexual behavior is o.k. does not make it less a sin.
What a sad day for Iowa and the US. Read the Bible and know what can happen. Our country is a democracy and the people vote one way and the judical rules another. Its time we took back our country and started to impeach these judges that think they have a god complex. Whats next 2 men and a boy. Where will these rulings lead us. May God help us.
Why are hillbillies always so obsessed with marrying their sisters?
I yearn for the day when people can just be happy with what they've got around them. The world is beautiful. People, by and large, are wonderful. Whether you're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, etc. Everyone is unique, and has their way of contributing to the human race.
I was raised in a very strong Christian home. I've been through the Bible many times. While I disagree with many things it says, there is also a lot that I agree with.
What I'm getting at is, in the end, what I got from the words of this Jesus fellow is, "What's wrong with just being decent to one another for a change?" ----- "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Douglas Adams
Sodom
Hey Jerilynn,
You can't say the word "God". It will offend Joe L. By the way Joe L., How can you not believe in God?
Josh said "God says its sin, not me." Go read through Leviticus and find the other things that is clearly stated to be a sin. Also, read above posts. You're embarassing yourself
Way to go Iowa! I must say that if you were to have asked me which state was the last one I could think of that could make this happen - Iowa would have been in the top 5...glad they proved me wrong!
That being said - the comments here have been hilarious. Lots of screaming about the loss of our "moral fiber" (might I suggest Fiber One?) and how we are all a "bunch of perverts". Funny that....when I see a heterosexual couple - *I* don't immediately start thinking about their sex life - why would ANYONE? But these same people aren't all up-in-arms about websites that promote promiscuity and extramarital affairs (onlinebootycall . com....I WISH I were making that up, or the fact that marriage has been a reality-game show for the last few years with crud like the Bachelor.
Yes, by all means, let's focus our attention on one of the smaller segments of society and blame everything on them - makes sense, right? I can't tell you how many marriages my partner and I have ruined by committing to each other.....boggles the mind, really. And of course we HAVE to trot out the "slippery slope" arguments - my personal fave. "When will we see weddings between man & his 'best friend'"? "Now we'll have to recognize polygamy!!" Oh the *horror*....really - who gives a flat f**k? Show me the dufus out there lobbying for his right to marry Rover (seriously, I need the laugh..)- the only problem is this discussion involves CONSENTING ADULTS. Now when Rover can GIVE that consent - I'll be happy to step aside and let that freak-show have all the happiness he wants because it simply does NOT effect me. Polygamy? I STILL don't care - let them marry however many people they want. Are they ALL consenting adults? Fine by me as it STILL does not effect me. You don't want this "taught" in school? WHO DOES THAT ANYWAY??? Why are parents unable to have these discussions with their children? Why does the gov't have to step in and promote discrimination because you haven't got the sac to have the hard talks with your own damn kids?
You'd think by 2009, this would be a non-issue...as it SHOULD be.
Don't like gay sex? For God's sake - DON'T HAVE IT!
Don't agree with gay marriage? Again, don't get gay-married - seems common sense to me...
Worried about my eternal soul? Well, let me say "thanks" and kindly ask you to let ME worry about that. Last time I checked - when I check out...it's just Him I have to answer to - I don't see how anyone else fits into that scenario - STFU already.
it's the silliness of all this-- takes a he & a she for marriage-- PERIOD-- please don't mess up our country anymore than you already have-- if we keep this foolishness's discussion on going we will lose our children, grandchildren & great grandchildren-- wake up people-- wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Candy: Do we really need to get into that? That would take up far too much time. Also, the word "God" does not offend me. I believe in the right to choose for yourself. If you believe in God, great. It's just not for me.
Response to Eric 2009-04-03 15:22:23 ET -
Eric, you've have it totally backwards. We SHOULD worry about homosexuality (sin) as sin is the reason our world is in the shape that it's in. Genocide (murder), infidelity (lust of the flesh), economic crisis (greed, "love of money is the root of all evil). The Bible plainly teaches that sin separates us from God and that He hates sin. That is why we are so strongly opposed to the lifestyle. It's destructive to that person AND YES IT DOES AFFECT OTHERS. i.e. The average lifestyle of a gay male is late 40's. Because Fred poking Bob in the bung hole isn't what God intended. The Bible is plain on this subject. The perverse practice of this lifestyle will cost us millions in medical care/healthcare; not to mention the judgement of God/withdrawal of his protective hand on our nation because we continue to openly accept that what God called an abonimation. What does the Bible have to do with anything? If you wouldn't rely on today's media or liberal school books that don't teach you anything and do some thinking and research on your own, you'll see. This nation has the principles, faith, teachings, scriptures and leadership of Almighty God in her very DNA, running through her veins. Our historical documents are filled with scriptures from the Holy Bible. Our founding father's were lead by God everyday. Our historical buildings have God's words etched in their walls. God is why our nation rose to such prominent power and blessing in such a short time and the mocking, forgetting, refusing of God will be this nation's downfall. Any nation who turns their back on God will be turned into hell. That's why we Christians are against anything that goes against God's word. There is a heaven to gain and a hell to fear/shun. We're not "hating" as previous remarks have said. Is disagreeing hatred? If so, it applies to both sides. You can bow to your creator and worship Him while He's Savior or you can bow to Him when He's Judge when He returns. As always, God is a gentleman, and you decide which it will be. God bless.
Marriage was created by God. He said it is not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve. The plumbing does NOT work for either man & man or woman & woman. Honestly, who cares what you do behind closed doors, but out of your guilt don't push it on the rest of us to accept this perversion. It'll NEVER be.
Since when is it irrational to look at something based on your faith. All of you that have turned this into a Christian bashing session seem to be ignoring the point and the facts. There's so much hate going on in these comments, and it is only that way because the people discussing this issue cannot back up what they have to say, and I mean people on both sides. Stop making stupid comments and start discussing the issue. This is exactly why the court is able to legislate from the bench, because the people turn it into a battle and start harrassing the different factions involved rather than focusing on the fact that the courts are doing the job of the senate. There are obviously a lot of people on both sides who have reasons to be angry, but until you stop insulting people it is only going to show you in a negative light. Stop using the words Fag or queer. I may not agree with their lifestyle, but if we are not respectful it only shows ignorance, and there's enough of that going around the world as it is, which is why democrats got elected to everything last election. People stopped caring about the issues a long time ago, when it becamemore patriotic to bash the president than to suppport our troops. Within ten years of our country being attacked by terrorists our country has become divided because people do not care about the officials who serve our country, and the liberal media is just enjoying giving people something to laugh at. Americans need to grow up, on every side of the battle.
That's how liberals do it. Have an opinion that a majority of the people disagree with? Just find a judge to legislate from the bench and change the rules. Liberals have done alot to destroy the traditional American family, and there has been a lot of horrible biproducts as a result. Today is another step in that direction.
That's how liberals do it. Have an opinion that a majority of the people disagree with? Just find a judge to legislate from the bench and change the rules. Liberals have done alot to destroy the traditional American family, and there has been a lot of horrible biproducts as a result. Today is another step in that direction.
Has anyone heard of separation of church and state? This is a landmark decision and should be applauded across the nation!
Jenny, Your comments seem to imply that an individuals actions do not affect those around him. This is foolishly nieve. "No man is an island unto himself." EVERYTHING that we do affects others. If you don't believe me, ask Wall St.
Bravo, Iowa! All is not lost! Well Done! Well Done!
Who do government officials think they are? Marriage involves a sexual relationship. Masturbating with a member of your own sex is not a sexual relationship. The general public in Iowa needs to review their high school biology!
(Maybe the people supporting this decision failed biology.) Humans can't redefine nature.
"Gimme Polygimy!" Yes, finally. Thanks Homos :-) Religion is a relationship with emotion, tradition, and superstition.... its emotional fiction. Marriage (today) is a only legal contract between two or more consenting adults. done and doner. Get real bible thumpers.
That's it... keep evoking the founding fathers and their deep passion for christianity. "
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. " - Thomas Jefferson; ---- "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison; ---- "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison; ---- "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson; ----
While I am a conservative Republican. I do believe that Iowa has made a well thought out and very important point. There needs to be a separation between church and state.
Marriage is a double edged sword because there is the Religous version and the version that is recognized by the state. I do not believe that the government has the right to permit or not permit marragie based upon religous views. The Government is ther for ALL americans, not just the conservatives or the liberals or the purple people. If a particular religion believes in marriage is only between a man and a women (which I do stand for) they have the right todecide not to marry a same sex couple. However, that couple should not be neglected the same rights any other man and woman would have from the government.
As the article said... This is a religous debate. Lets keep it that way. But the government is not a religous entity.
US Constitution: "Endowed by our creator" meaning our real creator -- our parents. Freedom from religious tyrrany.
I don't know what all the christians are so upset about. Jesus and his pappy wwould love this! EVERYONE knows jesus was a gay. Traveling around with 12 guys, hanging out together, bathing together, sleeping together. Anointing each others feet! Total homo's!
seamus that is the most accurate statement on this board.
Some of you guys need to make up your mind -- Is this about what your God wants, or what the founding fathers wanted? Last I heard, this country was founded by people fleeing Europe's religious persecution. Seems like all this is kind of a step backwards in that regard
I think this ruling is absolutely fantastic and I hope it spreads through out the US and the world. I am so tired of my friends and family being discriminated against. Next step is legalizing gay adoptions in every state of our union. Great Job Iowa!!
Chris, might want to give yourself a little history lesson and research for yourself. There is no separation of church and state. Our founding fathers never wanted separation of church and state in the sense that it is used today. They absolutely included church/God/prayer in almost every segment of their professional and personal lives. Don't drink the kool-aid. Seriously, if you really think I'm wrong, research it. Please don't be ignorant though and believe everything you hear. When you can find it in the Constitution, please let me know? Have fun looking.
US Constitution: "Endowed by our creator" meaning our real creator -- our parents. Freedom from religious tyrrany. Free the homos to get divorced equally.
Justin: "Please don't be ignorant though and believe everything you hear." Because there is so much evidence supporting the statements made in the Bible...
Also, getting back to the part about researching first... may want to heed your own advice, big guy. While, yes, some of the founding fathers prayed, etc., not all of them did -- As you've clearly done the research, you simply must have forgotten about the OTHER founding fathers who had less than stellar things to say about religion
Religion is a relationship with emotion, tradition, and superstition. Marriage (today) is a only legal contract between two or more consenting adults. Welcome to the 21st century.
Oy Josh, the POINT is that your bible and your god have nothing to do with the government of the state of Iowa. Sheesh.
Joe L. You are very angry. I hope you truly know that there is a big difference in RELIGION and being a Christian. Most of your negative comments about God, religion and Christianity illustrated a failure in the human condition, not God or Christianity. People will always fail (Christian or not), but you seem to have no problem "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."
religion = emotional fiction, but US law is based on facts. fact = marriage is only a legal contract.
Rory, I'd really like you to show me how my friends' marriage effects you in any way. Did it diminish the love your other half has for you? Did it force you to go out and get divorced? Did someone tell you your marriage was now invalid because those 'nasty queers' are doing it as well? I'm willing to bet the only thing it 'forced' you to do is have this tedious discussion that simply doesn't effect your life. My standing with God is MY business - not yours or anyone else. I know this may shock you, but you are not the first to make this claim...why don't you be the first one to answer it honestly and rationally? This is simply a matter between consenting adults - the government really shouldn't be involved, but since they were so keen on adding benefits to marriage - it should be open to me as well. I pay my taxes just like you (or at least I hope you do...) - why is it I shouldn't have the same rights to protect MY family as you do for yours only without the expensive lawyer?
Oh Conservative Republican!!!! [2009-04-03 18:30:27 ET] You are RIGHT ON about what it means to be an American. You are a person with whom I would probably disagree on most social issues but I think we could sit down in one another's homes and treat each other with respect...and come away from it as friends. I really, really admire you for what you said in your post.
I did not get a chance to read all of the comments, but I find it rather curious wording of the ruling! If I am reading it correctly "The Iowa Supreme Court this morning upheld a Polk County judge’s 2007 ruling that marriage should not be limited to one man and one woman." It does not say that gay and lesbians can marry it says that marriage is not limited to one man and one woman... so some one who is bisexual could have both a woman and a man to be their Husband and Wife - I was for a rather long time living with my wife and boyfriend!... I could have had a wife and husband!!!
Daddy Bear Tezer!
Joe - you Google very well my friend. It's pretty easy. See?
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
AND THE BEST OF THEM ALL - still reading??
John Adams: “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
Angry? Not really... Look at how much harm has been caused in the world in the name of RELIGION. Not just Christianity, though they are certainly responsible for a good portion of it. Whether it be the "holy war" being fought in the middle east, the crusades, burning "witches" at the stake, or a Zulu tribe waging war on another tribe because the rain god didn't give them enough water to grow their crops.
Not to mention that every major religion in the world makes reference to the war to end all wars. Frankly, I am of the opinion that religion causes more harm than it does good.
Jenny, Do you honestly think that if marriage and civil unions were exactly the same in every way except in name, this would stop the debate? I really don't feel like it would. I AM being rational and honest. However, I am sure there are others who are irrational and dishonest. I await your response.
David Tezer - I bet you are a lovable person, and that both your wife and your husband would be lucky to have you as their lawfully wedded spouse!
Congratulations, Justin. You've made my point for me.
Those quotes are from some of the founding fathers. But not all of them.
My point is this: The people you just quoted had their beliefs. The people I quoted earlier had their own, that obviously differed from those of their fellow founding members. And yet, they got together, despite their differences, and hammered out a plan of fairness for EVERYONE.
I feel very strongly about this and it's time we as a nation took a good look at ourselves and considered where we want to go. I cannot agree with some of the earlier statements and wish to totally dissociate myself from them. We need to move forward into the 21st century in a Christ-like way treating all our citizens with respect while respecting many of the traditional values that have made us great. I call on everyone to come together on this issue and reject those who would try to divide us.
Wow. Iowa has trumped California in leading the way for fairness and justice and equal treatment under the law. And in doing so today has continued a long history of doing just that. Who knew?
For so many years, I thought Iowa was a backwards state made up of uneducated and provincial hicks. I learned something today - how wrong I was. Iowans - you rock! Congratulations to the State of Iowa for showing the rest of the country that "equal treatment under the law" still means something in the great USA. Good for you. Maybe my state of Ohio can learn something from you.
Sincerely -
an Ohioan
dnitzer: who do you think we are? Kansas?
Everyone here needs to lay off the flipping... and as for this CHRIS guy? ELIMINATE the gays? that's a little psychotic. I know being conservative means a traditional view and I like the idea of being cautious about change, but where do you draw the line.
I would consider myself somewhat conservative, and I happen to be gay. So what should I do? Well there are some options....
I can "find God" which would somehow make me love women, which is doubtful, it's just contextual. I don't see women in a relationship context, it doesn't happen. Sorry.
I can kill myself... but c'mon, the economy is tanking right now, and I'm paying loads of taxes for all that unemployment.
I can stay in a long term relationship where I'm happy, and maybe get married if the state allows it. Why does this threaten people?
This has no effect on your marriage, and don't equate gay marriage to pedophelia and bestiality, you make yourself look like an idiot. How about the concept of 2 CONSENTING ADULTS? That slippery slope argument is pure garbage.
AND the churches don't have to perform them! So I promise, Jesus won't strike you all down if I get married. AND why the hell do you all think God is so vengeful? Jesus seemed pretty chill, wouldn't God be the same? What does he care if 2 guys or 2 chicks go at it? Shouldn't he be concentrating on the earth not falling off it's axis?
People equate being gay with deviant behavior because that's the way it's always been. When it had to be a secret it promoted this concept of secretive relationships and promoted sketchy behavior. I always figured if you held gay people to the same standard of monogamy as straight people it would be good for establishing a relationship, rather than just hookups.
So logically, it makes sense. And I'll probably get 100 responses quoting the old testament and telling me to go away. I'm not trying to force my views on anyone. No ones saying you have to go to a gay wedding or anything, so why are you harping on somthing that doesn't remotely affect you.
I know you're terrified your kids are gonna turn gay. Don't worry, they can't. That's all predetermined through genetics/hormones and etc. If your kid is gay, you can do the "ohhh i'm gonna convert you" or "ooohhhh get out of the house"... wouldn't it easier to give them a hug?
This thread is frustrating because there is no reason for all this anger, everyone calm down and stop being so scared all the time. I guarantee you'll be less stressed out about things that don't affect you.
Rock on Iowa.
I have a question for those who are married but insist that civil unions are just as good. (ie, basically their argument goes like this: "Marriage is for me and people like me, but civil unions are good enough for those are not like me.") If civil unions are just as good as marriage, then why don't you have a civil union for yourself? If they are the same, and given the choice, would you accept civil union instead of marriage for you and your spouse?
dnitzer--you and Obama must have the same speech writer. That last quote reminds me of the "guns and religion" statement made by our president. I will ask the question that was asked earlier but received no response...Why do liberals claim to be so inclusive and yet anyone who disagrees with them is an "uneducated hick"?
Being gay is not a choice, and until people realize that, these arguments will continue. For the people who object to gay marraige, what if it was your son or daughter, wouldnt you want them to have the same rights as you do??? Allowing peple to have equal rights does not diminish anything, it enhances society. What are you afraid of anyway? Think about it. Live and let live...
Joe - but I quoted the same men you did. So they just had their own beliefs. So if God's Word isn't the truth, and therefore you have your beliefs and I have mine that establishes that there is no absolute truth. Assuming you have a daughter, I belive it's okay to rape your daughter because hey, I had they urge and who's to tell me I can't do something if it feels good. Oh but that's wrong you would say. Why is it Joe? On what authority do you have to tell me that raping someone is wrong? Or murdering? Or stealing? What? On your own beliefs? But you just established that everybody has their own beliefs and you can't tell me what's right or wrong. How do you draw the line Joe?
Hi Joe: LOL. Do I detect some sort of Kansas / Iowa in-joke?
I must confess, my perceptions of Iowa have been formed mostly by The Music Man. You mean, you are not all of you like Mayor Shin and his wife? :-)
Seriously, though, my father attended the Lutheran Wartburg Seminary in Dubuque and got his Masters and PhD in theology there. He always spoke highly of his years in Iowa (mid-1950s). I have no doubt that he would proud of today's news.
again!!!
i thot we delt with this subject alredy.
the news needs to plaster the faces and names of thos responibal for this!!
this is and outrage!!!!
no its worce than that!!!
WE NEED TO STOP THIS FRACKEN GAY CRAP ONCE AND FOR ALL!!
lest go back to stoning them, i have my rock, whos with me!!
JUSTIN - I am glad you have religion if that is the only thing that makes you choose to be civilized. People who are honest are better than religous nuts.
Righty tightee. Nice try but you didn't come close to answering his question. Answer his question.
marriage is only a contract, religion is only an emotion, gay is happy, equality for the homosexual(s) is what we're talkng 'bout.
Hey Lefty Lucy---"religion is only an emotion"? Where did you get that from?
I grew up in Iowa believing that homosexual relationships were wrong. Then I met my first openly gay friend and her partner, giving me the opportunity to know them as people and not as a sexual preference. It caused me to reflect on my beliefs as a heterosexual and a Christian. In the end, I found that I could practice my religion AND be an Ally for the LGTBQ community.
There are a lot of incorrect and hurtful stereotypes being thrown around on this website; the "evil gay sexual predator" and the "Bible thumping ignorant rural hicks" seem to be the most prevalent. In my experience, people who identify as gay, transsexual, or queer crave meaningful personal relationships- not just one night stands. And people who are religious can be rational and compassionate towards difference- not close-minded and unintelligent. I understand the pain and anger people are feeling maybe better than most, because I have truly believed both perspectives. However, as I grew older I began to see that it's not feasible to view the world in a dualistic perspective, where things are clearly right or wrong, black or white, up or down. It's the "shades of gray" and all the other colors that add beauty and complexity to our lives.
The general attitude in this issue always seems to be "if you're not for us, then you must be against us." While there are two definite sides to this issue, I wish that people would take a closer look at the individuals involved. My mother and father have had a beautiful marriage for almost 50 years. As their daughter I cannot see how the legalization of gay marriage negatively impacts their love for and union with one another- or any of my friends in heterosexual marriages. I have tried many times to understand, but I cannot see why people feel threatened by gay marriage. The issues surrounding marriage between two members of the same sex seem strikingly similar to many of the obstacles facing a marriage between a man and a woman- if you can eliminate society's prejudice. When I look at the joy on the faces of gay couples who have learned that their love and commitment to each other will finally be recognized by the state of Iowa, I feel overwhelmingly happy- but sad that they have to celebrate something that I take for granted as a straight person.
So, to both sides of the argument- go on and gnash your teeth and tear your hear and call each other terrible names. For me personally, today I will be celebrating with the Iowa families that will finally be made whole. I will also be grateful that I grew up in Iowa, where we practice the separation of Church and State, as outlined in Constitution of the United States. I will be proud that the Iowan Supreme Court that makes decisions that might not be popular, but protects the rights of its people.
OK, Matt's post was a joke right?
If it was for real, he would have spelled subject "subjec"
Patty - OK, Civilized people dont hurt others. All should have the freedom to do what you want unless it adversely affects the freedom of others. Problem is most people are NOT civilized, including religious folks who believe there is a friendly ghost looking over them. And this ghost creates plagues, floods, etc but is omnipotent and allows birth defects, cancer, nuclear bombs. not very omnipotent... religion is just a relationship with emotion and superstition.
Patty: Why do liberals claim to be so inclusive and yet anyone who disagrees with them is an "uneducated hick"?
When someone who holds a separatist, anti-equality view of this debate, can explain to me rationally, scientifically, without resorting to Biblical references, how gay marriage is hurtful to straight marriage, how it will destroy marriage, how anybody is harmed, I will reconsider my opinion of said person as an "uneducated hick." Note that I ask for scientific, academic, non-Biblical, non-emotional proof for any damage to heterosexual marriages. Citations and references to replicable studies from more than one source would be helpful.
Justin - you aren't comparing the same thing. Belief in God or Gods or no gods, is a difference of opinion, and doesn't hurt anyone. As Joe L quoted earlier: ""But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson". It is in essence a victimless crime. Instead of making a comparison to theft, rape, and murder, you might try making one to so called "victimless" crimes like drug usage. Just a thought.
This isn't about liberal tolerance. Homophobia is wrong and it is hurting people - on an individual level, when families turn against gay members or teach their children homophobia; on a social level, where a climate of fear and uncertainty in many areas, field of the economy and institutions is a real barrier for a lot of gay folks; and on a policy level, where gays are second class citizens. And last - on a spiritual level, where gay people are denied participation in community spiritual traditions.
I'm sorry, but petty bigotries are not just part of the game - we will win this battle for affirmation of the human rights of gays and lesbians and even if you don't like it, you don't have a choice - this is not your choice, and it is not about you. It is about undoing the harm that gays and lesbians have taken on themselves because of the negative beliefs of others.
My only problem with this ruling is that I don't believe the religious institution of marriage should have anything at all to do with government. Take ALL marriage out of government and leave it to each religion to do whatever they want. Meanwhile, the government should call all domestic partnerships between consenting adults "civil unions", giving those the tax breaks we currently give married people, since they are saving resources by cohabitating.
But what would I know, I'm just a heathen.
Hannzilla, Please help me to understand how someone who calls themselves a Christian can support something that their God and Scripture clearly does not. The Bible is not unclear. God does not approve of homosexual relationships. The Bible is also clear that we are to love one another. Just because I don't agree with the Gay Rights movement doesn't mean that I hate people who are gay. The Bible is not written in pencil. We don't get to erase the verses that we don't agree with...any of them. Please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate your heartfelt comments.
What these judges, and those who support "gay marriage," don't seem to realize is that if the state has no compelling interest in maintaining marriage as between one man and one woman, then it has no compelling interest in maintaining it between only two people. All of the arguments for doing so fall by the wayside. Thus, we will not only have "gay" marriage, but we will also have polygamy, bestiality, group marriages, and probably some combinations of people (and things!) that we haven't even thought of yet. This change will tear the fabric of our society in ways that we as yet cannot conceive. And all in the name of "equality," as our children (and the adults that they will become) all suffer.
Thank you Iowa! But I can't believe how much hate there is still out there. We are granted freedom to believe what we want, but that freedom doesn't turn your beliefs into law. I think justice was served today and many happy, cohesive and fruitful families today have been vindicated. Thanks!
Candy: "We don't get to erase the verses that we don't agree with...any of them."
I take it then that you refuse to wear clothes made of different kinds of cloth? And that you do not eat shellfish or pork? And that you drag adulterers outside the city walls for a good old-fashioned stoning? That your daughters can fairly be sold into slavery as long as you get a good price?
As you say, we don't get to erase the verses that we don't agree with.
dnitzer-- I am sure that you are willing and able to produce the exact same documentation that you are asking me for? It would be hypocritical for you to ask this of me without doing the same in return.
Let's play "Pick Apart the Illogical Arguments"! FUN FOR ALL! 8D
"What's next, Two Men and a goat?"
Your argument is stupid. I don't even have to think to say that. It's a generic dumb excuse to try and rationalize something that doesn't even have a logical argument, and you're dumb for thinking that you're right for doing so.
"A nation stands on its moral fiber. With that said, taking our superior inteligence to over-rule the common sense of biology is a new low for human beings. Since being gay is all about behavior (genetics only creates the propensity) the courts took it upon themselves to over-rule the will of the moral majority. Since mankind went the direction of human rights and started saying the sensibility of the few far outweighs the many, we violated the very doctrines of a democracy. And, when you consider the legalization article in the Times, we have now taken fooling the people to a fine art. Because it is okay to argue the health issues of tobacco and ignore those same impacts of marijuana because of political correctness for the few. "
1. animals have actually been reported to have sex with their own gender
2. The United States of America was established for the purpose of freedom and equality for their people, not to cater to religion. There's a reason for "Seperation of Church and State".
3. marijuana is harmless to those that can actually handle the responsibility and tobacco is most obviously harmful to the body
WHAT A SURPRISE
"The gay mafia has won another victory in the courts. The citizens of Iowa need to take back their state. Marriage is not a natural right and the definition should not be morphed to meet the agenda of any group. Marriage is between one man and one woman. One plus one is two and the sky is blue, too."
Think again
"Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution." - Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
:3c
"I have friends who are gay, but I do not feel that their "commitment" to their same-sex partner should be considered equal to the marriage between me and my wife. Call it anything but marriage. I don't want it taught in schools, as I have small children. If they legalize same-sex marriages, they might just as well legalize polygamy. It's just not right..... I'm disappointed."
What gives you right to say that their's is not equal to your's? Last I checked America was about equality, not Christianity. :O
"Who do government officials think they are? Marriage involves a sexual relationship. Masturbating with a member of your own sex is not a sexual relationship. The general public in Iowa needs to review their high school biology! (Maybe the people supporting this decision failed biology.) Humans can't redefine nature."
That is a beyond childish thing to say. Gay sex != masturbating. Come back when you can actually make a knowledgeable comment instead of spouting generic trash as an excuse for your lack of a logical argument. >B|
"Marriage was created by God. He said it is not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve. The plumbing does NOT work for either man & man or woman & woman. Honestly, who cares what you do behind closed doors, but out of your guilt don't push it on the rest of us to accept this perversion. It'll NEVER be."
Y'all really don't mind ignoring Seperation of Church and State, do you? B|
"So if "marriage [is] no longer limited to one man, one woman" then polygamy is legal, as would be inter-family marriages, right? That's the problem, this creates a slippery slope where marriage will eventually become meaningless."
Generic baseless excuse. BOOOOOOOOOOORIIIIIIIIING
See how I was able to flawlessly defeat ALL of your arguments?
That's a sign that there's something wrong.
cartman124 - I will venture to guess you are too prideful to see outside your safe little box. You have commited to creating a reality from emotion, superstition, and tradition so arguing over the fiction (aka religion) serves no purpose. Emotion does not allow for reality. Hey, keep your head in the sand looking at a pretend god if you need a reason to be a good person. And, its fun to be part of a big group like a religion, even if it is fake.
OH HEY OOPS FORMATTING PROBLEM LET'S TRY AGAIN!
"What's next, Two Men and a goat?"
Your argument is stupid. I don't even have to think to say that. It's a generic dumb excuse to try and rationalize something that doesn't even have a logical argument, and you're dumb for thinking that you're right for doing so.
Marriage is for people who beleive in God. You can't be gay and beleive God accepts you as man and man, or woman and woman. The good book if your a believer says between one man and one woman. Now you have to legalize marriage between more than one man or one woman for the mormans to make it fair for everyone.
"A nation stands on its moral fiber. With that said, taking our superior inteligence to over-rule the common sense of biology is a new low for human beings. Since being gay is all about behavior (genetics only creates the propensity) the courts took it upon themselves to over-rule the will of the moral majority. Since mankind went the direction of human rights and started saying the sensibility of the few far outweighs the many, we violated the very doctrines of a democracy. And, when you consider the legalization article in the Times, we have now taken fooling the people to a fine art. Because it is okay to argue the health issues of tobacco and ignore those same impacts of marijuana because of political correctness for the few. " 1. animals have actually been reported to have sex with their own gender 2. The United States of America was established for the purpose of freedom and equality for their people, not to cater to religion. There's a reason for "Seperation of Church and State". 3. marijuana is harmless to those that can actually handle the responsibility and tobacco is most obviously harmful to the body WHAT A SURPRISE
Patty:
Now it is you who are dodging the question.
Hey, Jeremy. "Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution." - Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16
dnitzer: once again the pro-gay stance has turned into the anti-Bible stance. We have forsaken God, we have gone our own way. "There is a way that seems right to man and the end is destruction."
"I have friends who are gay, but I do not feel that their "commitment" to their same-sex partner should be considered equal to the marriage between me and my wife. Call it anything but marriage. I don't want it taught in schools, as I have small children. If they legalize same-sex marriages, they might just as well legalize polygamy. It's just not right..... I'm disappointed." What gives you right to say that their's is not equal to your's? Last I checked America was about equality, not Christianity. :O
Patty - any comment? re: religious folks who believe there is a friendly ghost looking over them. And this ghost creates plagues, floods, etc but is omnipotent and allows birth defects, cancer, nuclear bombs. not very omnipotent... religion is just a relationship with emotion and superstition but for some reason is anti-homosexual.
I think this decision is a wonderful thing. We should not judge others based on their sexual preference and everyone should be allowed the same rights no matter what.
To those that think this is wrong, you should realize that the next generation (those in college now) would probably allow this when they are in government. No matter what this will come and one cannot try to stop something like this. The world is becoming more tolerant and those who aren't are living in the past. You can only hold on so long.
"dnitzer: once again the pro-gay stance has turned into the anti-Bible stance. We have forsaken God, we have gone our own way. "There is a way that seems right to man and the end is destruction." " My good man, that's because the Bible is wrong in a way that threatens equality, the basis for America.
ltitans: What is this Bible you keep referring to? And what is this God thing some of you keep talking about? There is no reference to such things in Buddhism - which, as we all know, is the One True Way. :-)
"Who do government officials think they are? Marriage involves a sexual relationship. Masturbating with a member of your own sex is not a sexual relationship. The general public in Iowa needs to review their high school biology! (Maybe the people supporting this decision failed biology.) Humans can't redefine nature." That is a beyond childish thing to say. Gay sex != masturbating. Come back when you can actually make a knowledgeable comment instead of spouting generic trash as an excuse for your lack of a logical argument. >B|
"Marriage was created by God. He said it is not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve. The plumbing does NOT work for either man & man or woman & woman. Honestly, who cares what you do behind closed doors, but out of your guilt don't push it on the rest of us to accept this perversion. It'll NEVER be." Y'all really don't mind ignoring Seperation of Church and State, do you? B|
"So if "marriage [is] no longer limited to one man, one woman" then polygamy is legal, as would be inter-family marriages, right? That's the problem, this creates a slippery slope where marriage will eventually become meaningless." Generic baseless excuse. BOOOOOOOOOOORIIIIIIIIING
See how I was able to flawlessly defeat ALL of your arguments? That's a sign that there's something wrong. It's not me. http://sexualityinart.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/scream.jpg
"Marriage was created by God. He said it is not good for man to be alone, so he created woman. Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve. The plumbing does NOT work for either man & man or woman & woman."
See, this is why I ask for "scientific, academic, non-Biblical, non-emotional proof for any damage to heterosexual marriages. Citations and references to replicable studies from more than one source would be helpful."
And Patty wonders why I think of such arguments involving "plumbing" to be coming from uneducated hicks.
People, people, people, you STILL haven't answered my question from
2009-04-03 19:10:06 ET?
dnitzer, Joe, Righty tightee? Anyone? Are you afraid? The answer is you can't give me an answer. Because our country's laws were based directly from God's laws. God is the ultimate authority on truth. "It is not in man's ways to direct his own paths." Oh shoot, I keep making Bible references. Maybe that's because I tend to believe the one that actually created me instead of a guy named Joe....or Bob....or Lucy....or me.
Justin - you need to get a global eduction, travel, get into reality. You god is an emotional ghost of tradition and superstition. this ghost creates plagues, floods, etc but is omnipotent and allows birth defects, cancer, nuclear bombs. not very omnipotent... religion is just a relationship with emotion and superstition but for some reason is anti-homosexual.
lefty lucy: I like to think that God's just an asshole who doesn't give a shit.
our laws are based on being civilized, not your superstitions.
Congratulations. Truth marches on and sweeps fraud before. There is no sincere antigay theology based on the Bible, where it says in Romans 13:10 "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." and Jesus assigned care of his mother to a male disciple when he was to be crucified (John 19:26-27). Nor is there a sincere antigay position based on tradition, since Pope John Paul I (Albin Luciani) favored gay rights and there was even a gay Mormon apostle back in the day. No, the antigay position is a cynical and insincere fraud perpetrated by sneering hateful fools as cheap way to get stupid poor people to vote for Republican organized crime. Good for Iowa to kick them to the curb.
Justin: If this is your question: "But you just established that everybody has their own beliefs and you can't tell me what's right or wrong. How do you draw the line..."
Here's how I draw the line: is anyone else harmed by your action?
The examples you gave - rape, murder, theft - were interesting choices for you to throw out there for debate. How did you choose those in this context, and not, for example, "marriage" (whether straight or gay)?
I still haven't heard how anybody is harmed by two persons of the same sex getting married. If so, then they must also be harmed by a same sex civil union or a domestic partnership, correct? (if CUs and DPs are in fact the legal equivalent of marriage).
we are endowed by our creator, REALITY CHECK that is only our parents who really did create us. You'll know this if you listened in biology class (is that not taught at christian schools?). Sure, they weren't homos, but now they can be
You asked for it...
MEDICAL EVIDENCE:
There are many facts long known to the medical profession about homosexual behavior. Two are presented below, along with some more recent evidence on the average lifespan of homosexual persons.
1. Anal intercourse is a primary activities in which homosexual persons engage (over 90% of homosexual men). It almost always tears the rectal tissue, allowing the introduction of fecal matter from the person's intestinal tract into his or her body. This is inherently disease producing.
2. The sperm introduced into the colon penetrates the colon walls, and then attacks the person's immune system, thus rendering him or her increasingly less able to fend off those very diseases which were introduced by the fecal matter.
These two facts have been known by the medical profession for decades. Any competent medical doctor will be able (and with moral integrity, willing) publicly to verify these statements concerning the so-called "gay bowels syndrome" and other conditions.
3. The result of these and other activities in which homosexual persons typically engage have resulted in an average lifespan for the male homosexual person of approximately 42 years. That means an appalling average loss of about 40% of the male homosexual's lifespan. Female homosexuals, according to the same researcher, live only a few years longer.
4. When AIDS is included, the average lifespan drops another 7% into the 30's.
The Gay Report, published by homosexual researchers Jay and Young in 1979, revealed that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19 years of age or younger.5 (5. K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit Books, 1979), p. 275. )
Although homosexuals account for less than two percent of the population. they constitute about a third of child molesters.6 (6. K. Freund and R.I. Watson, "The Proportions of Heterosexual and Homosexual Pedophiles Among Sex Offenders Against Children: An Exploratory Study," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18 (Spring 1992): 3443, cited in "The Problem of Pedophilia," op. cit. Also, K. Freund and R.I. Watson, "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (Fall 1984): 197, cited in NARTH Fact Sheet. ) Further, as noted by the Encino, Calif.-based National Association for research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), "since homosexual pedophiles victimize far more children than do heterosexual pedophiles, it is estimated that approximately 80 percent or pedophile victims are boys who have been molested by adultmales.7 (7. Thomas Schmidt, Straight and Narrow? Compassion and Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate (Downers Grove, IU.: Intervarsity Press), p. 114, cited in "The Problem of Pedophilia, op. cit., p. 2. )
A nationwide investigation of child molestation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that more than 2,000 boys reported molestations by adult Scout leaders. (Note: The Scouts, who have 150,000 Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters, ban hundreds of men each year from scouting out of concern that they might abuse boys.)8 (8. Patrick Boyle, Scout's Honor (Rocklin, Calif.: Prima Publishing, 1994), p. 3l6. )
A study of Canadian pedophiles has shown that 30 percent of those studied admitted to having engaged In homosexual acts as adults, and 91 percent of the molesters of non-familial boys admitted to no lifetime sexual contact other than homosexual.9 (9. W. L. Marshall, et al., "Early onset and deviant sexuality in child molesters," Journal of interpersonal Violence 6 (1991): 323-336, cited in "Pedophilia: The Part of Homosexuality They Don't Want You to see," Colorado for Family Values Report, Vol. 14, March 1994. )
Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., and Charles B. Johnson, Ph.D., conducted a content study of the personal ads in the Advocate, the national gay and lesbian newsmagazine and discovered that "chickens," a common term for under
dnitzer - penis, vagina, anus (poopy smelling anus).....is that better?
Yes Johnny, says the teacher, "It's totally normal for you to stick your penis in little Billy's anus. It's okay. If it feels good, it's okay. You won't be at risk of STD's or AIDS in this lifestyle. You won't burn in your own lust for un-natural desires and want to parade nude through the streets with innocent children. Yes, and if you want to watch porn and be addicted, that's your belief and desire. It's okay. It won't alter your image of what a woman is or make you respect her less. It won't affect your mental wellness or your actions or your natural desires. Don't listen to Ted Bundy that it ultimately led him to murder and destroy other peoples lives. That belief about your actions affecting others is crazy. He doesn't know what he's talking about. What proof does he have? If you want to drink alcohol, it's okay. You won't get addicted. It won't affect others. I mean the possibility of you getting drunk and killing someone else is just absolutely absurd. Yes honey, you stick your penis wherever you want. Spot's anus? Of course it's okay. Who is anybody to tell you that you can't be happy? That won't affect your mental well-being one bit....................ahhhh yes. This is the beautiful society I want for my children!
Matt - re: "I like to think that God's just an assh*le who doesn't give a sh*t" that seems to be contradictory, since an assh*le's only purpose is to sh*t. I agree that religion comes from an assh*le, cause its sh*t.
That's all interesting, but it has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. The question was, how does (same-sex) MARRIAGE harm anyone else? You answered the wrong question - probably just the one you would rather have had asked.
Patty - That's all interesting, but it has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. The question was, how does (same-sex) MARRIAGE harm anyone else? You answered the wrong question - probably just the one you would rather have had asked (apparently having more to do with pedophilia, judging from the data you provided).
Patty! How dare you bring un-biblical facts to this discussion! The nerve!
Patty - do you know the CIA created aids?
"dnitzer - penis, vagina, anus (poopy smelling anus).....is that better? Yes Johnny, says the teacher, "It's totally normal for you to stick your penis in little Billy's anus. It's okay. If it feels good, it's okay. You won't be at risk of STD's or AIDS in this lifestyle. You won't burn in your own lust for un-natural desires and want to parade nude through the streets with innocent children. Yes, and if you want to watch porn and be addicted, that's your belief and desire. It's okay. It won't alter your image of what a woman is or make you respect her less. It won't affect your mental wellness or your actions or your natural desires. Don't listen to Ted Bundy that it ultimately led him to murder and destroy other peoples lives. That belief about your actions affecting others is crazy. He doesn't know what he's talking about. What proof does he have? If you want to drink alcohol, it's okay. You won't get addicted. It won't affect others. I mean the possibility of you getting drunk and killing someone else is just absolutely absurd. Yes honey, you stick your penis wherever you want. Spot's anus? Of course it's okay. Who is anybody to tell you that you can't be happy? That won't affect your mental well-being one bit....................ahhhh yes. This is the beautiful society I want for my children!" http://i43.tinypic.com/2z58z2s.gif
let the homos get married. why are the religions so against it?
Perhaps Patty is suggesting that same-sex couples will now invade her home and perpetrate such acts upon her and/or her husband, thereby ruining her marriage? I don't see the connection between the studies she posted and how her marriage (or anybody else's) will be harmed.
Lucy - were you trying to make me upset? I'm not sure of the intent of your uneducated, ignorant, ranting.
**dnitzer**- here are the facts about the myth of "committed homosexuals". Number of Sex Partners
(MGCPS Feb. 2000) When questioned about the number of sex partners in the previous six months:
One - 20.7 %; 2 to 10 - 39 %; 11 to 50 - 26.2 %; Over 50 - 7.8 %.
Thus 73 % have had more than one partner in the previous six months.
Length of Relationships
From Sydney Men and Sexual Health (SMASH)
This survey questioned men as to the length of their relationship.
For those in a relationship, the data was:
Up to 6 months: 21.1%; 6-11 months: 12%; 1-5 years: 34.7%; Over 5 years 16.5%.
An additional 15.7% had a relationship that had ended in the past 6 months, leaving 84.3% of those 'in a relationship' giving data about the length of a relationship.
Study by NCHSR and NCHECR.
Justin: And your data compares favorably to a divorce rate of 50%+?
@Justin: You are definitely not a hypocrite, no sir.
Please know that I support same sex marriage. We have come a long way in accepting the differences of others and I want Iowa to be a progressive state. There is not a doubt in my mind that one day same sex marriages will be allowed all over the world, why not let Iowa be thought of as a more progressive state instead of a farm state full of hillbillies. This will certainly bring in a lot of revenue to our state of people coming here to be married. In this economic times, we need to make sure that we take advantage of every opportunity.
As for the fear that our children will see same sex couples as a bad example, or to have to explain about homosexuals at an early age; most children won’t even ask and if they do then parents will have the opportunity to express their personal beliefs at that time. Same sex families already exist, children in schools are already exposed as some of their classmates already have two moms or dads; all you are doing is allowing these children of same sex parents to be protected in horrible circumstances of death and divorce. I ask only that you think in a progressive way and make Iowa a positive, accepting, and forward growing place to live. Maybe our children will stop leaving the state and think of Iowa as a better place to live.
I realize that older people will have a more difficult time accepting same sex marriages, but know that our youth are speaking up and being heard. They are our future and they are more accepting and tolerant than their parents. I hope that it stands because it will make these young adults proud to be from Iowa.
Sincerely,
Robin J
Hear, hear to Ms. Robin. This has been fun and somewhat entertaining, but there seem to be no studies proving that same-sex marriage have a harmful effect on anybody else's heterosexual marriage (Patty's projections and fears aside). So before signing out, I go back to my first post -
Wow. Iowa has trumped California in leading the way for fairness and justice and equal treatment under the law... Iowans - you rock! Congratulations to the State of Iowa for showing the rest of the country that "equal treatment under the law" still means something in the great USA. - an Ohioan.
I'm losing interest in the supposed opinions of the Christian god. If he exists, it's high time for him to come down and tell us unambiguously what he thinks, instead of letting the intellectual lightweights of society speak for him all the time.
This is great. I am so very proud to be an Iowan. All these people want is the same chance we get to love each other in a relationship that is recognized the world over. There was a time when marriage was defined as marriage between a white man and a white woman, lets not forget.
Matt - you certainly couldn't have passed Math 101. Of course it favorable. Do you just totally ignore the facts that it is medically destructive to live a homosexual lifestyle? Do you totally ignore the facts that homosexuals are much more likely to molest children? Do you totally ignore the facts that AIDS, STD's and many other diseases are highly prevelant in the homosexual practice/lifestyle? If you do, you truly are ignorant. Truly................................MATT, sir, please explain how I am a hypocrite?
@dnitzer: I find it really sad that anyone in this country has been fooled let alone this many people.
Anyways, I find it really nice that we're one step closer to actually fulfilling the age old promise of equality to citizens of America. The US will actually be thought of worldwide as a good place to be at some point. The future's looking brighter. :D
From,
a bisexual Virginian
Justin - There are many different philosophical answers to the question that you've put forth (What is morally acceptable and what isn't, to paraphrase) and all of them have there merits and pitfalls, and if your truly interested in learning about them I would suggest taking a class on Moral Philosophy, you may find Divine Command Theory interesting.
Joe L stated that we all have different beliefs, which is true, we all do, even with in your church (assuming you are a church goer) you will find many interpretations of different passages, laws and what have you in scripture. It is very unlikely that someone will agree with you 100% the entirety of your belief structure even if they go to the same church, or are in your family. That said morality differs much more wildly from culture to culture then it does with in your religion, and even so there are certain things that are considered immoral in all or virtually all cultures. One example is murder. Though the definition of what constitutes murder varies the concept of murder is present (near) universally. It is considered wrong in almost all cultures Christian or otherwise, so the fact that we in the United States consider murder a crime can not be attributed to a claim that our nation is founded on God's law. Other nations who do not believe in the Christian god consider murder a crime with out it being God's Law that decreed it.
So, no, I cannot answer your question fully, as there are many ways of theories on how to determine whether an act is moral or not. But I can tell you that God's Law isn't the only method of ruling the list of crimes you mentioned immoral, many other cultures believe those acts to be wrong with out viewing them through the lens of God's Law.
Jack - I dare you to study His Word. With an honest heart, He will reveal it to you. Don't listen to the intellectual lightweights of society=men. Men will fail you when they lean on their own understanding and wisdom, as we've all seen, but God never fails.
@Justin: "were you trying to make me upset? I'm not sure of the intent of your uneducated, ignorant, ranting." Trust me, you're a hypocrite. STD's are prevalent EVERYWHERE. Not just homosexuals. And just because some "study" showed that homos are more likely to be pedophiles doesn't mean we should assume that ALL OF THEM RAPE CHILDREN AND ARE DESPICABLE PEOPLE BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.
Hey All - there is no god. The bible was written by a few nomadic sheep herders. Sorry to burst your little bubble there.
FYI - also, there are no unicorns, no Zeus, no Allah, no Santa, no Tooth Fairy, etc.
@Truth: But there is the sun. :D
Thomas - you are certainly correct on many things you've said. Minute, trivial beliefs, (standards, etc.) are different in one church. However, people in another country who don't believe in Christ/God were still created by him and were still initally instilled with a conscience of what's morally right or wrong. This was and can only be given by God. It's certainly a person's right to say and believe that God's Word isn't the foundation of truth but it will be revealed when Christ comes back that it is. I've never "hated" a homosexual, yelled slurs, damaged property, etc. I would sit down and have lunch with one anytime. But I will still fight for what's right, for what God says in His Word. I'll still fight for my child's future, for my country. God will not bless us as a nation with these beliefs (sin). There are countless stories in the Bible and many examples in our history books of nations falling because of lack of Godly morals. Sadly enough, to lean on time to dispell or prove would be a tragedy as it would be too late. I will not give up. When I stand before my creator, I must be able to say I did my part to warn other souls of the snares and pitfalls of sin, and the destructive end there of.
@Justin: Being self-righteous doesn't exactly help your argument.
"We did not elect these judges, and so they are not representing the interests of the state, only their own agendas."
Actually, here in Iowa, the Supreme Court Justices do face a retention election. If the voters cast enough ballots to remove the Justice from the bench, he/she is gone.
http://www.sos.state.ia.us/pdfs/elections/2008/JudgesConstAmend.pdf
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you blather off.
"God will not bless us as a nation with these beliefs (sin)."
But will God bless us for these sins?:
Unfairness to others
Unequal treatment under the law
Pharisee-like pre-judgment of others
Homophobia
Treating ourselves as superior to others by virtue of our sexuality
If God does not bless us for the sins you listed, which of our sins *does* He bless us for.
Point is, if you subscribe to your belief system, we are all sinners. Which sins have you not committed today, Justin?
I grew up in Iowa, and delivered the Des Moines Register for 6 years. I have never been so proud of Iowa as I am today. Iowa is leading the way towards a more compassionate, and understanding American. YOU GO IOWA! I love you and the people in it.
Matt - not being self righteous my friend. Just stating the facts which you seem to not handle very well. MATT, let me smack you in the face or throw cold water on you to wake yourself up. Please show me somewhere in my comments that I stated that I assume that ALL homos rape children and are dispicable people? Where Matt? Quite making assumptions of your own my friend. Never once did I say that. I simply posted facts, facts that homosexuals themselves admitted that were polled. You my friend have said absolutely nothing intelligent in this entire blog. Just childish comments. You're like David Letterman arguing Foreign Affairs.
Justin - You clearly are a believer, and there isn't anything wrong with that. I will not be able to change what you believe, and for the most part I have no reason to try. Belief isn't the problem, its discrimination. From what you've said despite your beliefs you wouldn't treat a homosexual any different from anyone else, and that is a wonderful thing. You might not agree with the lifestyle, and you may try and warn them of what you feel awaits them, but you don't try and hurt, harass, or demean them for their choices. So, why shouldn't they be allowed to have the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as the rest of us, including the right to wed.
5 year olds will now be taught what sodomy is! way to go iowa!
"5 year olds will now be taught what sodomy is! way to go iowa!" You are obviously a well-educated, sophisticated person with your meaningless blabber. You are so smart! <3
Thomas - Have you ever read the 1972 Gay Rights Platform; their "mission" so to speak. 1. Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent. This is extremely disturbing. Ever been to a "pride" March Thomas? I encourage you to do so. Urinating in public. Sexual acts in streets. Nudity; all in front of children. Go sometime. You will really see when the homosexual desires are let loose, when this spirit is let loose, it is repulsive and extremely sad. 2. Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage. This will destroy families and ultimately, communities, and ultimately our nation. They don't want to just practice in the privacy of their homes. If that was the case, there would be nothing to fight. People live in sin everyday, as sad as that is. But they want to flaunt it in your face, they parade it in the streets, they are starting to force it into schools to teach it as normal; there are laws trying to be passed right now that if a preacher preaches that it's sin, he can be arrested. Is this right Thomas. Schools have never ever taught against homosexuality, so why all of a sudden force them to try and teach it as normal? The homosexual movement has an underlying agenda that most do not see or believe. They want to remove all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with sexual relativism; that when it comes to sex, there's no right or wrong. God created the nucleus of the family for a reason. Children need a mother and a father in there upbringing. Both are very important. When you mess with the natural design of manking that God has created, you will destroy a people and cause anarchy. We now have bisexual restrooms. Is this normal to you? So you're okay with a homosexual man, who burns in his sexual desire to sodomize another male, to go into a restroom with your son, or a young nephew or any other male? Thomas, if you don't stand for truth, what are you made of? Who are you? If you call my beliefs discrimination than you call it what you will. God discriminated against a people in Sodom and Gomorrah for these exact sins. Thomas, do you believe in God? I hope you do. If you do, I hope you fear/respect Him enough to consider His Word that He has given us to enjoy a fulfilling life while on earch. I must go. It was truly nice to chat with you Thomas. I hope you have a great weekend. God bless.
Matt, most on this page are obviously smarter than you!
I would like to hear a Patty or a Justin or someone with similar beliefs to fill in the blanks in this sentence: "If a same-sex couple is permitted to marry somewhere in the state of Iowa, then my marriage will be harmed in this way [... fill in the blank here...] by it, because [.... fill in the blank here ...]."
"Matt, most on this page are obviously smarter than you!" Says the one who didn't say anything intelligent.
@Justin: You have made my day.
Before criticizing the court or the justices for "activism", I encourage you all to read the full text of the opinion. The (unanimous) majority did an excellent job exploring the various constitutional reasons requiring inclusive marriage. While you may disagree that it was the "right" thing to do, judges do not rule on the basis of their conscious, but rather the requirements of law. In this instance, it would have been against Iowa's constitution to find any other way.
I applaud the justices for their fair application of state law.
This is not a matter of Love and Hate. This is a matter of Right vs. Wrong. Jesus Christs loves all. "Love the sinner, hate the sin". Christ is willing to welcome all unto him, if and only if, they repent of their sins and forsake them. “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” Rev. 3:20. Christ does not just accept us for who we are but rather if we have humbled ourselves before him and repented of our sins, he is there waiting at the door but it is up to us to open it and let him into our lives. But these words and principles are only true if you believe in god and in the Bible. Justifying a sinful lifestyle through a man made government does not change how God still views the sin.
Okay... Here is a checklist for all the "Christian" people out there.
ONE: Do any of you "christ-like" individuals actually know any homosexuals?
TWO: Are you any of the following A)Racist B) Sexist C) Homophobic D) All of the above?
THREE: Have you advanced your education further than Middle School? Many of your reasonings makes me question your logic skills and intelligence.
FOUR: Have you actually fully read the teachings of Jesus Christ, or would you like to THINK you have for your personal image?
FIVE: When was the last time you went to church? (Easter and Christmas don't count.)
SIX: How this will affect you in any way shape or form?
SEVEN: What was the founding father's goals for this country? (Oh that's right, Equality for all.)
EIGHT: When did you ever CHOOSE to be heterosexual?
NINE: How would you feel if people were able to vote on the legitimacy of YOUR marriage?
TEN: What sexual orientation was Jesus? He never married, lusted, or procreated. Tell me. It never says.
The passing of the Iowa Supreme Court's decision will go down in the history books, for the good.
I think you Christians should worry more about the Ten Commandments, because we all know you follow them strictly and obediently.
@Bravo116: You're missing the point entirely.
@Matt, and I am still trying to find your point, other than a random insult every other post. My point being for those trying to distort Christ and his teachings of love. We can love the sinner and still hate the sin. I know many gay people and I don't think any less of them. I don't agree with their lifestyle and them parading it around the community in a minority trying to justify it. Christians should love all but, they don't have to agree with their lifestyle, especially if they see it as a sin.
Douglas, will be glad to answer your question when I return home. Going out with the wife and two girls. Will return later tonight. :-)
@Justin
What if one of your girls turns out to be a lesbian? What then?
AWESOME!
Finally some JUSTICE in this nation of ours.
And no, I'm not Gay or Lesbian ;-D - only interested in JUSTICE!!
Another Smart, caring, loving Iowan who grew up in a small town and loves the fact that our state is sitting the standard for fairness and equality! YOU GO IOWA! May God bless our state for having the courage and insight to promote compassion, fairness, and equality.
I'll answer it Doug: Just because she chose a lifestyle I don't agree with doesn't mean I love her any less. However, I would still expect her to live by the same standards and morals that I taught her as long as she is in my house. And even then I would expect her to live by them but, she has her freedom to do what she wants. Just because she says she it gay, doesn't mean she has to sexually active and promiscuous. Hopefully she'll take into account the way she was raised when making decisions in life, and I would expect her to do that with every decision.
@ Bravo, I respect that answer.
I just would like to ask, wouldn't you want equal rights for all your children?
Iowa-leader of the decline and demise of family values. Hey, meet my mom and mom or meet my dad and dad. Get real. When same sex can reproduce then I'll ponder it. Right now, I'm not very proud to be an Iowan. It's another example of our legislators not voting for the constituants wishes. We'll know who not to vote for in the next election, should we have another one. It would be great for Iowa to be a leader in something, but same sex marriages........what a disappointment.
@Bravo116: The point is that America isn't supposed just cater to Christianity, it's supposed to give equality to the people. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! I don't mind you believing what you want, but you most certainly shouldn't assume that it is morally right to shove discrimination into the law THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE. B|
"Iowa-leader of the decline and demise of family values. Hey, meet my mom and mom or meet my dad and dad. Get real. When same sex can reproduce then I'll ponder it. Right now, I'm not very proud to be an Iowan. It's another example of our legislators not voting for the constituants wishes. We'll know who not to vote for in the next election, should we have another one. It would be great for Iowa to be a leader in something, but same sex marriages........what a disappointment." What's truly a disappointment is that people actually think like you do. LET'S SELFISHLY THROW AWAY THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLES OF EQUALITY FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE I DON'T APPROVE OF THEM AND THEY LOOK FUNNY.
Douglas, thank you for being so courteous, and maybe we can agree to disagree. As I can only speak for myself, I just don't see it that way.
Of course I would want my daughter to be happy and of course I would want her to be with someone for the rest of her life, but when it comes down to it, it is still a sin whether its legal or not. I will love her and I will always love her, and she will always be welcome in my house, and if the person she is with, treats her well and puts a smile on her face, I would be satisfied. She has her freedom to do what she wants but, I have my freedom to still hate the sin, and love the sinner and I always will. I will always stand up for what I feel is right, but I will never do so with malice or hatred. As, I am sure you feel the same way.
@Matt: You make the assumption that only Christians believe this is wrong. You are talking about one of the oldest institutions ever founded on this earth. (Marriage of a Man and Women) It is founded in almost every historical scriptural writ.
This is a good news
RE Matt:"But you most certainly shouldn't assume that it is morally right to shove discrimination into the law THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE." --That's funny, because I was just going to say the same thing to you. Teaching it in schools, or on TV or in Books and magazines, would be discrimination to the people who don't believe its acceptable. The door swings both ways.
@Bravo116: Slavery's an even older institution, but that's not exactly around much anymore.
Iowa's decision makes me proud to be a midwesterner- which isn't always the case. Our communities, our country and our world will be a much better place if we can all accept others that are different and provide them the same rights and safety in our world.
Thank you Iowa justices for reminding Iowa and the country that being gay doesn't make you less of person.
This is a positive step towards a world where gay kids and adults won't be spit on, harrassed, or assaulted but rather just be kids and adults.
All tyranny is founded on the simple principle of the big lie. The big lie in this case is homosexuality is normal. It is not. It cannot be normal for two individuals to marry who can not procreate. If this situation was normal the species could not survive. Homosexuality is an outlier situation. The core cell of society is the family that can create the next generation and raise them with the benefit of male and female influence. Any statistical arguement about divorce rates and so on are not relevant. That we fall short of the best does not mean we must settle for the worst. And the worst in the gay marriage situation is creating the norm of artificially creating children and operating under the big lie that the child does not have a mother or father. This also violates the main ethical directive that no person should be a means to another persons ends. Every child has a natural right to have a mother and father or the ability to find out who their real parents are. Even adoption, in most situations will allow this. Gay couples will operate under the fantasy that this is not necessary, thus denying their children of their birthright. In short; the decision is nonsense.
@Niximus: It's not like the Christians' lives are being affected as such.
Yeah, but I don't remember the last time I ever saw a gay getting sold off away from his family, or whipped in a field, or beaten, or hung. Please don't compare the two, you do a disservice to those who have.
@Bravo116: I'm just saying that age doesn't really matter in this case.
@Mike: People are a different animal, seeing as how we have the most advanced brains out of all of them.
It's a great day for Iowa, even if some of the close-minded idiots in this state can't realize it. Any day that freedom to live your life is recognized in America - it is a day to celebrate. Ironic that most of these people that are anti-gay marriage are the same ones who will vehemently argue THEIR right to own a gun. So here is a very very simple solution to all of you who are against gay marriage....Don't marry a gay person! (trust me they don't want you anyways!)
I think some people forget that part of the idea of marriage is the commitment to be with one person--and only one person -- for the rest of your life. You would prefer that someone not make this commitment? And how would this affect YOU?
Anyhow - this married hetro woman is very proud of Iowa today.
@ Matt: And I am saying that don't just assume it is just the Hillbilly, Redneck, American, Christians who believe that marriage between to men or women is bad, and that they are living in the Dark Ages, and need to live in the 21st Century. Regardless of religion the G & L community have made it a moral and religious issue by pushing it the last 10 years. The Christians never did. This idea was floated past various groups until it started seeing national attention. All the Christian community is doing is standing up for something we don't agree with or believe in, as am sure you are doing the same.
@Mike - take note...homosexual people do procreate. Perhaps not in the traditional way, but they do have families, raise them and they turn out great just as often as heterosexual families.
Matt; Human beings cannot put themselves outside of natural laws without undertaking create risks. The human brain is capable of developing all kinds of devices and arguments to free themselves of constraints. And, not all uses of our brains contradict the moral natural laws. So, there is nothing wrong in using medicines to cure disease. Nor, is it necessarily wrong to use medical interventions to help them conceive. But, this is an exception to the rule and recognizes something is wrong. However, gay marriage will lead to the argument that these procedures are normal, increasing their use and eroding any notion of the importance of gender roles in raising children. And, there is no logical defense to the argument that a man and a consenting child should be able to get married. Or, even more compelling, on equal protection grounds, what can be the objection to polygamy????
Kimmy; does a child created through technical means to a lesbian couple have a right to know who their biological father? Does a child technically created for two men have a right to know their biological mother????
@Bravo116: Well obviously it isn't just the Christians who disapprove. I know that all of the Abraham religions have something against homosexuality in their scripture. Nonetheless, I don't see how the G&L community are at fault here. The religious ones were the ones to disapprove something that didn't really have a negative effect on their own lives, or any lives for that matter.
@Mike: WHY DO YOU BRING UP POLYGAMY AND PEDOPHILIA? THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED! Also, homosexuality isn't socially "normal", but it certainly isn't a freakish abomination deserving of burning in hell.
Matt; How are they unrelated? On what grounds? Especially polygamy?? As for the other stuff and never said anything about it and I don't believe it. Homosexuals are persons subject to the same rights and laws of other persons. Marriage, however, is not a right that is natural for two men or two women, and certainly not entailing a right to have children, which denys them, by definition a mother or father.
@Mike: Think again. "Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution." - Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16
Also, Mike, the question is how are they related?
Matt; Think about what??? The quote doesn't support gay marriage.
@Mike: It doesn't say "men to women", it says "men and women".
I don't care for gay people. Nor do I care if they choose to love each other. Where is the problem?
Judicial tyranny is the official form of government in today's America. Our Republic has vanished in the span of a single generation. The people's right to vote is a meaningless formality. The Constitution as written by the founders is a meaningless piece of paper. KILL ALL THE LAWYERS AND JUDGES.
Matt; your construction of the statement stretches the boundaries of credibility. Your position would be supported if the statement said "sexual orientation" in the list of those things that cannot restrict marriage. However, it doesn't do that. Men and women simply means and women have a right to marry. Now, at a time, when people could think clearly, the statements meaning would be obvious. But, we are the inheritors of the mental errors of the totalitarion century and while Hitler and Stalin lost their regimes; their style of distorted thinking survives.
this decision is a simply case of finding for equal protection under the law for all citizens. all the rest of this blather about religions and citing of highly dubious statistics is pointless... and the rank hatred expressed by many here illustrate why advances in equality are made in the courts and not by a popular vote. thank you, iowa supremes, for coming to your fair and unanimous decision regarding civil marriage rights.
Congratulations Iowa! Thanks for making the sane choice. Reading the hatred and homophobia in some of these comments is sickening. I'm guessing Jesus is also sickened by those of you using his name to promote hatred and bigotry. As a straight, happily married, agnostic women, I am proud of Iowa. I hope that soon, any 2 consenting adults can celebrate their commitment in the same way I was allowed to, in EVERY state of our nation. Gays are people too, hard as that may be for some of you to see. One of the most loving weddings I have ever been to was between two, deeply in love men. My marriage is stronger for witnessing their commitment.
I am simply amazed how the people supporting this decision are content to avoid making or responding to any real arguments. They simply assert this and that. Like, "It is simply a equal protection issue." Well, the law is not so simple and the judicial construction in this case is legally wrong.
"...I am simply amazed how the people supporting this decision are content to avoid making or responding to any real arguments..."
And I am equally amazed at how any Iowan can feel anything other than enormous pride, especially given the state's history of setting trends and doing the right and fair and egalitarian thing. From abolishing slavery 17 years before the Supreme Court continued to make it legal (!) in 1837... through a history of supporting women's and racial equality... and now this. My hat is off to Iowa. You do the US proud.
I guess some people don't get it. 2 CONSENTING ADULTS.....I guess I don't see where animals come into play except in your mind.....Have you visited your doctor to discuss this?
By the way folks, issues of racial equality and gay marriage are not the same. I would take the trouble to lay out the argument in support of the assertion, but I doubt anyone would actually respond to the argument. They simply would reply with another assertion. As for comparing animals with humans. Of course the analogy is not meant to offer a complete correspondance. Human have the capacity for thought to act beyond their animal natures. We are more than animals and yet, less than the angels. And, we are clearly not gods, although much of the last 100+ years has been spent in trying to make it so. No, equal protection of the laws does not entail the right for two consenting adults to do anything they please. Finally, for those who don't think polygamy would follow, on equal protection grounds, from gay marriage; please explain: Why should number be a limitation on consenting adults getting marriad to each other??? I hope to see a response. Should be interesting.
Good for Iowa! In 20 years we'll look back and realize just how wrong it was to discriminate based on sexuality, just like we have with racism.
We need to exercise caution when using the bible to justify prejudice legislation and discrimination. Many Christians support full and equal rights for lesbians and gay. Jesus teachings say nothing about homosexuality, but much about the sin of self-righteousness. In fact the word homosexuality never appeared in the bible until 1943! Scholars vary widely on what they think the terms used prior to 1943 actually meant. Most agree it probably meant Temple prostitution and homosexual rape which often occurred during war when one army overthrew another. Homosexuality of a loving, committed nature is simple not addressed.
Scientific evidence supports genetics as a primary cause of homosexuality. Klinefelter's Syndrome is one example of many of genetics playing a crucial role in sexual abiguity. A condition where they genitals are not fully differentiated between male or female and the child is somewhere in between.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter%27s_syndrome
Since genes play a large role in sexual expression and sexual orientation, it must be assumed that like race, it is part of God's plan. Maybe gays were place here to test our ability to have compassion for those who are different? In any case, it is wise to follow Jesus teachings and err on the side of love, compassion, and fairness, rather than prejudice, judgement, and self-righteousness.
The judges who ruled on this case are not activist judges, but rather professionals who ruled based on the letter of the law. American laws that uphold fairness and equality. Laws that protect ALL of us. Luckily these judges had the courage to uphold the law regardless of public opinion, and stand by the very core values of fairness and equality that this country was built on. I am proud of Iowa and her judges for doing the right thing and upholding these core American values and core Christian values. Jesus taught love, not prejudice. Jesus taught, compassion, not hate. Jesus talk fairness, not discrimination.
God bless Iowa and her judges for doing the right thing. And please to those of you who claim to be Christians, stop using a beautiful religion of love to condone discrimination, prejudice, or hate. It time for all Christians to accept responsibility for the roles we have played in sexism, racism, classism, heterosexism, and xenophobia and repent for our self-righteousness and reach out to others with compassion and fairness. That is what Jesus would do.
I just have to laugh at those of you who are apoplectic about this. Get used to it. State by state, same-sex marriage will eventually be legal across the country.
I guess that means you only have to go through this 47 more times. :)
And by the way, sexual orientation is fixed. It can't be changed. You like what you like. There's plenty of evidence that proves sexual orientation is something you're born with.
ok people who discriminate against homosexuals, you need to get your head on straight, thier (we're) people too... everyone loves someone, everyone wants to love someone, does it really have to matter who, or what sex they are? i dont think so... and to the people talkin about what they would do if their children, or child turned out to be gay, most of the families i think would support thier child after all the child came from them... i know if my children turned out to be gay, i would be proud of thier decision, and for them talkin to me about it... i would not be like get out of my house... i would honor them for what thier doing...Secondly, people people what if you straight people were born gay? would you want people to make fun of you? or would you fight for equality? id fight hard, like i am...
I Am Proud Of Iowa... Congrats...!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lots of ignorant homophobes and bigots here. Gay marriage isn't the end of all life as we know it, it isn't legalizing pedophilia or bestiality (look up "meaningful consent" and educate your ignorant selves), and you have no real argument against it other than selfishness, ignorance, and bigotry. For the good of the country, shut up and let people have rights.
Then again, you are hateful little children throwing the world's longest tantrum; I daresay I'm wasting my time trying to convince you of anything factual.
WTF is up with you fundie 'tards going on like people think that talking about "God this, God that," and "the Bible this, the Bible that," constitutes an argument? LOL WUT?
I'm personally thrilled that some family friends can now get married - they've been together monogamously for at least 15 years, been kicked out of several churches and volunteer organizations by morons, and dedicated their lives to helping people, and now they can have all the legal rights of heterosexual couples who squirt out children and sap welfare from the government.
You guys also know that women would have to marry their rapists and were married off as pieces of property as prepubescent children to husbands who had other wives, and what we think of as "traditional" marriage came about because the melding of religion and government was convenient, rite? ...rite?
(and that there were other religions and governmental systems before the abrahamic and western ones?)
(and that teh ghey won't kill you or your kiddies, provided you aren't a crap parent that tries to terrify them?)
(and neither will exposure to east asian religion, atheism, agnosticism, etc, even at tender young ages, again, provided you aren't a crap parent?)
I bet y'all are afraid of Shakespeare and Chaucer. Maybe even Sartre. Damn.
Happy 2009 everybody! i mean, this is america where many ethnicities, races, cultures and sexualities exsist. that's what makes America great! i'd love to say we all live in peace, but that is not the case. i really think people should be more open-minded. i don't think gender matters. it just isn't fair how people treat gays today. if you're in love, who cares what's in your pants? i am going to get married. i will. no matter what it takes, i am going to get married someday to my same-sex partner. it would be a shame if i had to leave the country to do it. i support this decision 110%. and i hate the hypocrites that say it's against the bible, when they sin everyday. everyone is a sinner, and i don't even believe in god. being happy is never a sin though. and if you believe god is the creator, then why did he make homosexuals? i am so glad this law happened. and i hope that it will stay this way. SUPPORT LOVE!! <3
Just saw this. SNERK
Top Ten Reasons to Make Gay Marriage Illegal
01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.
07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.
09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
Congratulations Iowa.
And to those who oppose, you disgust me, you are the kind of people who make me reluctant to be a proud American.
Right to homosexual marriage is between TWO _CONSENTING_ ADULTS. People who are old enough to make their own decisions and do not need hicks in the woods shoving a bible between them.
A majority of my friends are homosexual and have many more homosexual acquaintances. But I do not know a single pedophile and as far as polygamy goes, the only people I see with multiple partners are heterosexuals (mostly in the form of cheating on a spouse).
And you bigots really need to get off your "moral" majority horse. As part of a minority (Atheist) I would be extremely upset if my rights were limited because a majority of people believed in magic (getting off topic).
And what's with this taught in schools business? Public schools don't even talk about heterosexual marriage except in health when told to wait to have sex until marriage. Which if a child is homosexual and thinks this is a good idea but is never allowed to marry, why, doesn't that just encourage them to just be promiscuous since choosing a life partner will never benefit them socially, politically, or financially?
Religious arguments, slippery-slop arguments, and taught-in-school arguments are invalid, so to all those ignorant bigots out there, GET THE F OUT OF MY FREE COUNTRY (ps, stop breeding too, the world's over populated as it is, we don't need 15 of your bigot offspring buying hummers and being a-holes)
I am a christian woman and I fully support same-sex marriage...congrats Iowa...I don't believe that one religion can impose its beliefs on others ( I wouldn't want the mormons taking away my coffee!). But in seriousness...I do believe it is their basic right. My religion is protected, and it is a choice...why does it matter if orientation is a choice?
America is a bunch of hypopcrites...they love to watch Ellen dance around on TV...but wouldn't support her basic rights? Come on folks...remember when the church supported slavery? Many churches are on the wrong side of history on this issue...
After reading all the hate-riddled anti-gay comments here, I am truly sad to call myself an American.
@MIKE ABOUT POLYGAMY
Yes, what makes us human is our ability to reject our primeval tendencies but we are still animals, we have the same brain chemistry of other animals. When scared all animals release adrenaline, when happy all brains release endorphins. But not all brains are wired the same. I may assume that you are attracted to the opposite sex (females) and that when a attractive female looks your way your hypothalamus (part of brain that controls emotion) releases chemicals that make you feel attracted to said lady. Now, let's say you have a girlfriend already when this happens, you can suppress those emotions, this is what makes you human. However, when you were single this happened when you saw said girlfriend and you worked to form a relationship. Well, homosexuals have a brain wired differently, only when they see someone of the same sex does their hypothalamus react, you can take a gay guy and put him in front of an attractive naked chick and he will feel nothing but awkward. NOW, Polygamy, has absolutely nothing to do with feelings but culture. Harems in India, concubines in Asia, polygamy in Mormonism. There is a pattern here, one man, many women and usually treated as property. There has never been (to my knowledge) of a female with multiple husbands. If multiple people can marry then 5 women and 7 men should be allowed to marry each other, but then are the husbands considered in homosexual wed-lock? People don't have a 'natural' chemical desire for polygamy, it's something they are brought up to think is right. Nobody looks at a room of friends and gets a boner thinking how great if they were all married together. I'm all for homosexual marriage between two consenting adults but not the dominating of females by a male.
I understand conservatives saying that their rights have been trampled, but I am from Canada, and gay marriage has been legal here since 2003. All these opponents who say it is 'destroying heterosexual marriages', I wanna seee the proof. not even ONE marriage has been destroyed here. rather, more people are married and happy, and the divorce rate, including homosexuals, has plateaud, rather than kept increasing. if people are happy and are not hurting anyone else, how can these Christians who are supposed to love evryone according the Golden Rule of the Bible, tell them they cannot do something. Shouldn't they wanna share joyous things with everyone rather than strip a certain group of those things?
One more thing: is it not just easier to accept people for who they are rather than fight against them? At this time of recession and war, ought we not to band together and support our country and our people rather than divide ourselves because of some family beliefs? Its 2009. There are way more important things to deal with.
I am so proud of my state today! Man, I would have never thought that Iowa would legalize gay marraige! I am so happy we moved foward into the 21st century. I'm straight, but I believe that it is a human right to love whoever you want, whether it's a man and woman, woman and woman, or man and man.
This is a great day for our state.
-Katie in Bancroft, Iowa
So now ass-lovers, cock suckers, pedophiles, homo-humpers, dykes, bulls, fags, low-lifes, scumbags, animal lovers, queers, and lesbo's can all conjugate their perverted sexual practices in the great state of i-o-wa!!!!! This isn't love it is sex by tha beasts in the field that the court says is equitable to God's law concerning marriage of a man and a woman! Not larry and steve; or doris and cleeve! So grab yoru dildos, and your gaudy wear, insemiante your cows, and your fem queers, send us your homo's, fags, and queers - to iowa, to iowa, let us not tarry - we might miss boning larry!
Good for them!!! I'm straight and fully support gay marriage. Some people on this board really make me nauseous. I bet you these are the same people that think that Blacks should be segregated by sitting at the back of buses and women should not be allowed to vote. Shame on you!!! Gay marriage has absolutely no effect on you, so why is it any of your business that two people that are in love get married? This is a major step forward for Iowa, I hope other state follow as well.
Also, to all the people on here that claim to be christians, haven't you read the bible? Doesn't Jesus teach you that if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also? Well Iowa just bitch slapped you, now what?
I am very proud of our iowa today. This day was an eventuality but i expected it to happen in about 3 years time. On a more serious note, i think a bill similar to prop 8 would come up and and may pass, but i hope the college towns (ames and iowa city) as well as des moines would come together to overturn the possible reversal of this court decision. Even if this court decision gets reversed in short term, the tides have turned and would expect the state to approve gay marriage by 2015.
After reading some of the comments here, i would like to end with a quote from Gandhi: "I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ"
JT - Christ also "threw" the money changers out of the temple. Christ also destroyed many people for their sins. Your ignorance of the Bible is plain. Christ also said "Though claiming to be wise, they became fools. God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts of their hearts and dishonored their bodies with one another. They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural. In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, because they did not think it worthwhile to keep knowing God fully, God delivered them to degraded minds to perform acts that should not be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, and viciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, haughty, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to their parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's just requirement-that those who practice such things deserve to die-they not only do these things but even applaud others who practice them. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things....................now go ahead and twist God's holy word to fit your feeble minded, fleshly driven thoughts, desires and beliefs. Yes, man does a fine job of governing themselves. Our world is in great shape!
I was going to do a lengthy post and why the Supreme Courts decision in Iowa is correct, but after reading so many insane post and the hatred being spewed here, I will only say this. For those who are upset with the Iowa Supreme Courts decision GET OVER IT!
Why would polygamy be so terrible for society if all parties were equal and consenting? Civil marriage is an agreement to care for one another and to share resources. I saw no posts which supported polygamy. I only saw quotes that jumped to the conclusion that polygamy is bad. Why is the communal agreement of polygamy instantly judged to be negative?
"They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, and viciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, haughty, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to their parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless." Sounds like you are describing Justin, Patty, Mike, Jack Meoff, and some of the other "Christians" here.
What I wonder is, who will the ultra-conservatives and Bible-thumpers demonize next? It was the Jews during the Middle Ages; then Muslims during the Crusades and Protestants during the Inquisition; the blacks during the Industrial Age and into the 20th Century; then women, Communists in the first half of the 20th century, and gays in the latter decades of the 20th Century. But within another generations' dying off, gay people will be a non-issue as the younger generations grow up. The Bible thumpers will need to identify a new target to continue their fund-raising and brain washing. So who do they pick on next?
I am so proud to be from Iowa now. A little less when I read the quality of logic and analysis in some of the comments here, but still....
re: Justin! I just talked talked to the Big Man on sat-phone. That's, the G-O-D himself, none other. Gotta' be honest with ya' big guy. He's not happy with the comments you've making about the company. Now we both know that you were just trying to make the company look good - hell, you wouldn't be your damn JOB if you weren't.
Thing is Justin - you can't just go around making mission statements on behalf of the company just because you want to. I can't even do that, and I've been working here for 25 years! Needless to say, the Boss is NOT happy, a feeling exasperated by the fact that he was inundated with angry calls during his golf round with the CEO of Telemex. The company's stock dropped 1.5% moments after your "statement". We just can't tolerate that kind of exposure, and we're going to have to distance ourselves from this, as a company, by taking drastic measures.
Now you've been a valuable member of this team for quite some time, and that's not something the company just going to brush aside. But we can't forgive your disregard for basic company regs, Justin. This comes down from the BIG MAN HIMSELF. . . We're just gonna' have to let you go, my friend. Clean out your desk before 5. Oh, and prepare a statement for press release this afternoon - we're going to have to make you look like a fucking pariah, for damage control purposes obviously.
So, in closing, it's been great having you on board. And don't forget - you're fired.
Jumpin Jevohal - you are so historically ignorant I'm not sure I want to waist my time. Never have I hated a homosexual. You don't even know me personally. Because I disagree on homosexuality you say I'm full of hatred. So if I hold a belief that you shouldn't smoke b/c it harms your body then I'm full of hatred too right? So you can disagree with me but I can't disagree with you? Makes perfect sense. Almost all liberals have the same dimented thinking. Be inclusive, be diverse. But the first time you disagree with somebody you'll call names, stereotype (Bible-thumpers), curse and become enraged. You liberals also become defensive the very moment that God or the Bible is mentioned? I agree many "Christians" certainly give Christ a bad name. But what does that have to do with you personally? Has God ever did you wrong? There's so much hate toward God and His word because it brings conviction to a man or woman who is living in sin. Not enough time to or necessary to quote scriptures. The comments here back it all up. That's the whole struggle in life. Live the way you (your flesh) wants to live or how God wants you to live. It's man's nature to want to do his own thing. But this will ultimately end us in chaos and anarchy like we are seeing played out in the world today. It's not God's fault that we're in the shape we're in. Man makes his own decision everyday that he wakes up. When a man is tempted to lust after another's wife, he makes a decision to either entertain those thoughts and ultimately act on those or to turn from temptation and ask God for strength. Only through the blood of Christ can we gain victory over sin. Only if we walk, live in the Spirit will we not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It's something that played out everyday. A man follows the lusts and empty promise that more money will make him happy so he walks into a store, shoots the clerk, and grabs the money. Sin. His choice. What are you running from Jumpin Jehoval and many others on here? Were you totally truthful on your taxes? No? Does that not affect the rest of society. If every person cheated on their taxes does that not have an adverse affect on society? When people steal in stores does that not drive the prices up for others? When someone commits fraud on a claim, does that not make other's premiums higher? Your actions absolutely affect others; even done in private. Because that affects that person, the way they act, the way they think and they have to go out in society and work with others, communicate, etc. When a man does wrong, more than likely, unless he's totally destroyed his conscience, he knows it and is ashamed, embarrassed, hurt. This affects his actions which affects others he interacts with. Have you ever been encouraged by someone? They had an affect on you. Ever been discouraged by someone? What about pastor's that are found to have cheated on a spouse? Does that not cause great harm, pain, suffering on them, their family, friends, congregations. Same for any other man? Sin has consequences. Perhaps a spouse, for instance, is unaware of her husband’s addiction to pornography, but his addiction leads to a guilty secretiveness and change in attitude toward her as his sexual partner. She perceives that change and speculates on the possible cause—he finds her unattractive, he doesn’t love her any more, or he’s having an affair. While none of these things are true, the consequences of his “private” sin are potentially devastating to her, their marriage, and their family, even if his secret is never discovered. I could go on and on. God created mankind and He also created sex. God said that a woman would leave her home and cleave to the man; commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. When man goes against God, against nature, the outcome is certainly not good. These are my last comments. I pray that someone will read and truly rethink how they are living, what they believe and find a wonderful life in Christ Jesus. He is life. God blss
This makes me so happy to be from Iowa. I am appalled, however, by the arguments going on in God's name. It feels to me that people are hiding behind religion to voice their own intolerance. I agree with commenter Carrie, I am baffled by some of the hate-filled illogical responses going on. Marrying animals? Really? People are not animals. No one deserves that comparison.
Same-sex marriages, unions of souls, date back to the early Christian church. Before that (and often after it) gender-biased marriage was a property transfer where a woman was owned by her husband, and used like a tool for making children. Hurrah for Christian values finally triumphing over self-described "Christians".
What's the point of even arguing with these people? Fighting superstition with logic is as futile as using a wrench to drink a beer. They're not even in the same family. Why even get angry banging your head against the wall of somebody whose main premise is that a ghost floating in the heavens tells him how to behave? There is no "winning". Try explaining to a violent fundamentalist Muslim why it's o.k. to be another religion. Not particularly fruitful. They're full of the same virulent hate, based on fiction, that the people posting above have. Obviously, I'm an Atheist, but barring some huge "Neo"-figuring-out-the-Matrix revelation sweeping across the planet, it would be nice if Christians, Muslims, Jews, Budhists, Hindu's and people of every faith would at least adhere to the love and forgiveness their texts espouse instead of cherry-picking and re-interpreting convoluted ancient texts to defend their angry, paranoid and selfish world-views. "Christian love" often feels like a whip to those of us on the receiving end.
Alright thumpers.... bring on the psycho-babble. Just realize that to me it sounds like you think Harry Potter is real and is coming to get me.
See you at Ragbrai. I'm going to get drunk all across your state and screw anything that moves.
I like how all the ignorant "conservative so-called-christians" jump to the "it must be the liberals" at every issue. I am a Christian and I vote Democrat. I also read my BIBLE! It seems to me it was the "conservative so-called-christians" who ran a man and his family out of a church!! For what? Where does it say in the Bible to do that! Which not too many "christians" can say these days is that they read the Bible, so we don't hold that against you brainwashed "conservatives". But it seems to me that it was a REPUBLICAN who got caught in the gay-sex scandal in the Minneapolis airport. So you republicans need to find a new strategy other than blaming the "liberals" for all your problems. Jesus did NOT teach us to cry and blame others. GO AND READ YOUR BIBLES and maybe you will realize how completely ignorant and mislead you really are in your beliefs. Christians are to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. Jesus specifically said that commandment! We are ALL sinners and fall short to the glory of God. What HUMAN has the right to determine which is the worst sin? America has a very warped view on Christianity and gives us who REALLY know what we are supposed to be doing as Christians, and actually PRACTICE JESUS' TEACHING are getting bad name because of your ignorance.
After having read all those who so vehemently attack this decision, I have a question for each of you: have you actually read the opinion? Do yourselves a favor - read all 69 pages of this intelligent and well-rounded opinion and then comment.
This is a question for Justin who commented that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. Please provide a study to back up that claim. You will find that all credible studies find there is no correlation between being a homosexual and molesting children. I suggest not making such statements when a quick search of the internet quickly discredits them.
I love my gay friends and family but I don't agree that they should be allowed under law to marry each other. They should be allowed the same rights as everyone else just not through the covenant of marriage.
P.S. Chill haters, it's just makes you sound really stupid.
"By the way folks, issues of racial equality and gay marriage are not the same. I would take the trouble to lay out the argument in support of the assertion, but I doubt anyone would actually respond to the argument. They simply would reply with another assertion. As for comparing animals with humans. Of course the analogy is not meant to offer a complete correspondance. Human have the capacity for thought to act beyond their animal natures. We are more than animals and yet, less than the angels. And, we are clearly not gods, although much of the last 100+ years has been spent in trying to make it so. No, equal protection of the laws does not entail the right for two consenting adults to do anything they please. Finally, for those who don't think polygamy would follow, on equal protection grounds, from gay marriage; please explain: Why should number be a limitation on consenting adults getting marriad to each other??? I hope to see a response. Should be interesting. " Hahaha, so you're rejecting the advancement of humanity AND you're still adamant on your "belief" (read as: bullshit) that legalizing polygamy would rise from this? CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP FOLKS!
@Sven from Brooklyn: It is sorta fun to be in an argument where you can't possibly lose.
Matt - I would like to hear your argument why racial equality and gay rights are differing issues. I would respond.
"2009-04-03 15:07:05 ET
What's next, Two Men and a goat?"
Indeed. That is clearly the logical next step to two consenting adults being allowed to marry.
My big fear is that my own happy heterosexual marriage is in danger. Now that gay marriage is legal, how can a heterosexual like myself avoid getting gay-married? Any advice?
Now that gay marriage is legal, surely none of us will be able to resist engaging in it.
What's the problem with gay marriage? We just doubled your last chance for happiness. Will the world fall apart? I think not. Next thing we will be giving the women the right to vote and guess what will happen then? They will take up smoking and God forbid start wearing pants, and not wearing hats in church, and take to cutting their hair. Gosh they may even start wanting equal pay. Point being, We are all humans and as such are equal. Yes I know there is a God, but I am not about ready to kneel down to all rules/laws in the Bible that we know are wrong in this time. To the women who read this, sorry to use you as an example, I respect you and your rights.
I woke up this morning and found that my heterosexual marriage of 20 years is no more! All because Iowa now permits same-sex couples to have what I have had all to myself until yesterday. My straight marriage is gone, gone, gone and I have no idea where it went!
Homosexuality is a normal human variant like blue eyes and handedness. Much more education is obviously needed. What is exciting about the Iowa decision is the clear respect shown to churches and the state and our Constitution's wisdom in making that distinction. Believe what you want - but don't force others - particularly absent a factual basis. Bravo, Iowa!
1. I have never grounded any of my points on a theological argument. 2. Homosexuality is not like blue eyes and handedness; blue eyed people can see normally, left handed and right handed people can exercise all the functions appropriate to the use of hands. Homosexuals cannot procreate together naturally, therefore the physical attributes of homosexuals cannot be used for their normal purpose. If a blue eyed person were blind we would not say being blind is like being not blind. 3. I intend to read the entire Iowa decision and respond. I have read parts and am particularly struck about the judges non-concern for children. "We find no evidence of harm to children, but if we did, that would necessarily---" and so on.
Now, please respond to the above arguments, if you can. But, don't rant on about "Christian haters."
I meant to write; "not necessarily" in the above post.
Mike, Civil marriage does not exist exclusively or primarily to support procreation. What one uses her or his body parts for has nothing to do with marriage. The word normal simply means the most common type. I don't really think it's reasonable to say that sexual intercourse for the purpose of procreation is the most common thing we do with out sexual body parts. Most of us pee a lot more often than we have sex.
It's true that as a gay man, I cannot make a baby with another man. But I can raise a child with another man and that child's basic welfare is much better supported if he or she can be legally related to both dads. But let's not get into that here because these comments are about same sex marriage, not same sex parenting.
I live in Massachusetts but unfortunately I haven't yet met the man of my dreams. I do hope to be married some day though. I am however a dad. In 2001 I was matched by the Big Brother Program with a little eight-year-old boy. He had been horribly neglected by his heterosexual mother and sexually abused by her heterosexual boyfriend (not the boy's biological father.) The bio-dad never laid eyes on his beautiful son -- the pregnancy resulted from a one night stand. After removal from the birth "home" at age five, this boy floated to three different foster homes and was living in an institution when we were first matched. At age 10, after two years as my 'little brother' he moved into my home. At age eleven, we appeared before the same judge who had given the original order to remove him from the abusive "home" and she joyfully granted my adoption of my son. Today he's fifteen and continues to suffer the typical after-affects of his abusive early childhood -- difficulty in school, trouble controlling his emotions, mental health issues -- but he has put behind him at least one of these after-affects: inability to trust adults. He knows he is loved unconditionally by me and that his safety and welfare are of utmost importance to me. I am a much better man for this experience of parenting my son. My success in parenting has nothing to do with my being gay, and of course civil marriage has nothing to do with how anyone becomes a father or mother.
Now, is there anything else I can help you with?
Will someone please respond to my assertion that polygamy isn't necessarily undesirable under the principles of civil marriage.
@ekiM, I applaud your story! Gays can serve society in a positive way as you have clearly demonstrated! Bravo! Also, you made a perfect point about the fact that civil marriage isn't primarily about proceedtion. If it were, elderly people would be excluded from marriage. Also, if it were so important for a child to have a male and a female parent, we would have to outlaw single parenthood and divorce that gives custody to only one parent. That leads me to assert that if it is so important to preserve the "sanctity" of marriage, we should outlaw divorce to protect our society. I believe most people would resist that movement vehemently (as they probably should). Our modern society has created civil marriage that must be separate from religious mandates. I would certainly support the idea of giving all heterosexual and homosexual couples a civil union for the legal side of marriage while the church could control the religious side of marriage (a similar system is seen in France). The truth is that society made a big mistake by not separating marriage, a clearly religious thing, from government a long time ago! Everyone could be a winner in this argument if we stopped issuing government marriage licenses and only issued civil unions to any two consenting adults who wish to combine their lives and assets. The religiously concerned wouldn't lose their definition of marriage, and all couples would gain the protection they deserve. Anyone like that idea?
I AM A STRAIGHT MAN. LET ME BE CLEAR HERE. EQUAL RIGHTS ARE EQUAL RIGHTS! LET ME ASK YOU ALL SOMETHING, WHAT SIDE OF EQUALITY DO YOU STAND ON? WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EQUALITY YOU ARE EITHER WRONG OR YOU ARE RIGHT. NOW, IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE'S VERSION OF MARRIAGE NEED I REMIND YOU THAT IT WAS WRITTEN BY MAN. IT IS INTERESTING THEN IN THESE SAME WRITINGS BY MAN EXODUS 21:7 SAYS THAT I CAN SELL MY DAUGHTER INTO SLAVERY AND THAT I MY SELF CAN OWN SLAVES. BOY WILL THIS HELP MY FINANCIAL SITUATION IN THIS ECONOMY BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER WILL FETCH A HIGH PRICE. I COULD SURE USE THE EXTRA MONEY TO PURCHASE SLAVES. I CAN FINALLY JUST SIT AROUND AS MY SLAVES DO MY BIDDING. I AM WORRIED THOUGH, WITH EXODUS 35:2 BECAUSE IT CLEARLY STATES I SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH FOR WORKING ON THE SABBATH. I WANT TO KNOW THEN FROM YOU, DO I HAVE TO FEAR MY NEIGHBOR COMING TO KILL ME ON MY WAY TO WORK ON THE DAY OF THE SABBATH. I AM A REGISTERED NURSE WORKING IN AN ICU. WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU OR YOUR LOVED ONES WHEN MYSELF AND MY STAFF ARE PUT TO DEATH. THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS I STONE MY NEIGHBOR THIS SPRING WHEN SHE PLANTS IN HER GARDEN TWO DIFFERENT CROPS SIDE BY SIDE. OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO ME AS I WEAR CLOTHES MADE FROM TWO DIFFERENT FIBERS OR THREADS? LEVITICUS 11:7 SAYS TOUCHING THE SKIN OF A DEAD PIG MAKES ONE UNCLEAN. SHOULD I THEN BAN MY SON FROM PLAYING FOOTBALL AND TAKING PART IN THE CAMARADERIE AND FRIENDSHIP OF TEAM PLAY, OR LOBBY CONGRESS TO BAN FOOTBALL ALL TOGETHER TO PROTECT MY CHILD AND COMMUNITY FROM BECOMING UNCLEAN OR PUT TO DEATH FOR WORKING ON THE SABBATH SHOULD THIS BE ONE'S JOB. ISN'T IT STRANGE HOW INDIVIDUALS WILL ONLY USE THE BIBLE VERSES THAT SERVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS? SINCE 54% OF MARRIAGES END IN DIVORCE MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN THESE INDIVIDUALS THE SANCTITY OF A SECOND MARRIAGE BECAUSE THEY DEFILED THE SANCTITY OF THEIR FIRST. IF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE MEANS SOOOO MUCH TO YOU WHY HAVE YOU NOT LOBBIED FOR CIVIL UNIONS THAT GRANT THE SAME RIGHTS TO INDIVIDUALS IN LOVING RELATIONSHIPS. THIS WOULD HAVE PROTECTED THE 46% OF YOU THAT HAVE NOT DEFILED THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE. YOU COULD HAVE DONE THIS A LONG TIME AGO WHEN THIS DEBATE GOT STARTED OR EVEN PUSH FOR IT NOW. YOU HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME SINCE THESE UNEQUAL DEBATES BEGAN. COME ON, YOU ALL KNOWING PEOPLE HAD TO HAVE SEEN THIS COMING. SO AGAIN I STATE, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EQUALITY YOU ARE EITHER WRONG OR YOU'RE RIGHT. WHAT SIDE OF EQUALITY DO YOU STAND ON???
Sir; I happen to think the modern world has lost contact with the ability to integrate our reason with our passions. A thing (object) or our person has a natural use or end. A thing can be used for purposes other than the best use; for example, I could pound a nail with a shoe. We now live in a world were people want to say it is perfectly normal to sell shoes in a hardware stores to pound nails; if one likes. The fact that the idea of parenthood is not met by many does not preclude the point that we would be better off if the idea were met. By the way, I believe it was a mistake to go away from states divorce laws requiring cause to be shown for a divorce. Many of the problems concerning children and other social issues result from a sky high divorce rate. We allowed the courts to give people freedom to their passions without realizing the harm to society for a lack of reason. In my view, gay couples ought not to adopt unless the child is of an age to consent. However, in your case I assume your child will be given the option to seek his biological father if he so desires? Finally, on this point: I would say liberals always point to current problems to justify more liberal policies, when it is the liberal policies of the past that have brought us to this point.
Now; concerning the Iowa Supreme Court decision interpretive strategy. I am 15 pages into the decision. Early on the court announces it will follow the living, breathing understanding of the constitution. So, right up front all arguments based on community standards, common law, precedent, intent are out the window. It is the same interpretive strategy used by Liberal courts over the past 50 years to basically say: We will substitute our will for the will of anyone else; and the constitution be damned.
My above post is for ekim.
All you Christians should stop trying to push your beliefs on everyone else. Separation of church and state is a foundation to our country's government for a reason because you Christian morons have used it to defend slavery, segregation and so many other social atrocities in our past. Before you even say "our founding fathers said in god we trust" or some other misguided quote from history, God or Christianity are NEVER mentioned in our Constitution (The piece of paper that regulates our country and our rights). Our founding fathers were NOT Christians, in fact they made sure to let everyone know they were theists(Washington,Jefferson, Madison, Franklin,Lincoln and Adams are included in this list). Feel free to believe in your superstition but don't try and take away rights from other human beings because you interpret 1600 year old text written by random desert nomads as God's word. Also, calling gay marriage something other than marriage would be a similar clause to the separate but equal period in our history, you should examine yourself as a person if you think that is a viable option.
You people don't believe in Santa, aliens, Bigfoot or ghosts, so why do you still hold onto these ancient mythologies so close to your heart.
Face the fact that as more of you old people die, your bigoted beliefs will slowly die with you the same way ideologies supporting slavery died with that generation of bigots. It is never too late to grow up, let your old superstitions go and worry about your own life.
I have lived in Austin for 10 years, which is now considered the gay capitol of the US. The repercussions here are profound. I am not proud to say that I live in Austin. The motto here is "keep Austin weird" and it is. I was proud to say that I was from Iowa, but no longer. This is an outrage and an insult to God and country. There will be consequences to the state and it won't be good. Of all the things that are going on in this country right now, I think this is the saddest thing of all. What were these people thinking, or were they?
to Sharon, who asks: "What were these people thinking, or were they?" They seem to have been thinking that "equality" means that everybody should be treated the same under the laws of the state.
Sharon; Hannah Arendt, in trying to explain, the participation of many thousands of people in the National Socialist movement (Nazis) observed they had lost the capacity to think. We see a similar kind of situation today. The post-modern world wants everyone to say they see 4 lights when there are in fact only 3 lights present. As for the transgressions of Christians: The modern world, through the worshiping of man as gods, has destroyed more lives and created more horror in 100 years than the Christian era could possibly have achieved in 1000. All the totalitarian man worshiping systems; fascism; communism; indivdualism and so on all have the same foundation; the denial of God. Nietzsche saw it all coming in the late 19th century:
"Where has God gone? I will tell. We have killed him; you and I. And, we are all his murderers." So, what is left? The will to power. And reason is shunted into the dark night, the abyss. Well, I can tell you, I will not go quietly into the abyss. I will resist to your face*; gay marriage; abortion; euthanasia, and the will to power in all its manifestations.
All those who support the above named nonsense.
Mike: "So, what is left? The will to power. And reason is shunted into the dark night,.." I think I know what you mean. After 20 years of traditional marriage to my wife, and raising two children to college age, and reading the news about this S.C. decision... this morning I woke up with the oddest feeling: I wanted to buy leather chaps, get a nipple ring, and have one of my ears pierced. I wanted to kiss another man. In public. I want to sing show tunes. It's something that is just coming over me all of a sudden. I. Just. Can't. Seem. To. Help. My. Self.
Mike, unfortunately, my son won't have the option of meeting his biological father. He signed the paper relinquishing his claim on the child (before he was even born) indicating he did not want to be "found." And, speaking as a shoe, I've been successfully pounding this nail (my son) for the past five years and, quite honestly I have saved his life. He waited in a 'limbo' state for over five years to be chosen by a family. I came along and, despite the challenges I knew he would present, I chose him. His social workers were certain he would never be adopted (because of his emotional and developmental deficits, caused by the trauma.) Kids who 'age out' in the system don't usually live very healthy or productive adult lives. Incidentally, in Massachusetts it's remarkable how often gay singles and couples actually CHOOSE, not 'settle for' kids with severe physical, emotional, and developmental disabilities. In addition to being heartwarming, it's also a tremendous service to a society that has almost always treated us gay folks as second class citizens. So Mike, I don't point to current problems to justify more liberal policies, and I don't lament that the liberal policies of the past were what brought us to this point. Faced with a child before me who needed to be loved and cared for, to do that would have seemed decidedly unhelpful. I simply saw a need, fell in love with a little boy who needed a family, and made a choice to become his dad.
Jumpin Jehovah; go read the Iowa Ct. decision. As a jokester, you are more apt to appreciate the joke of the reasoning found in the decision.
To ekim; there is nothing relevant about being gay in the situation you have described. Your efforts are honorable on their own terms. Now, given the reality of the boys confusion and difficulties I suggest you don't add to his confusion by bringing another 'dad' into the house. And no; don't assume anything about my cherry lane childhood. I am well aware of the circumstances this boy has had to deal with. In fact, much of my thinking on these matters is the result of an attempt to create order out of chaos and make sense of it.
Mike, I said just that in my first post, "My success in parenting has nothing to do with my being gay..." Then I went on to point out that "of course civil marriage has nothing to do with how anyone becomes a father or mother." in response to your commentary about how two people of the same sex can't make a baby, as if that has anything to do with marriage equality. As for your thoughts that I shouldn’t bring another dad into the house, my son brings joy to me every time he attempts to 'fix me up' with men he thinks I'll like (and it happens fairly often.) There is a man who lives in another state who has adopted not one but two boys from the foster care system. If it weren't for the distance, we'd be dating; and our three sons would be better for it -- to have yet another caring, responsible, nurturing adult in their lives -- that is NEVER a bad thing. My son is lobbying for us to move and become one family. He knows what is good for him, eh? This other dad is a dream boat -- handsome, kind, intelligent, nurturing, a good cook -- and he is so good with my son. Anyway...this conversation started with your assertions that same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed because same sex couples can't use their body parts for the 'normal' purpose. I think we have digressed.
ekim; by the way, I have a relative who is gay, so I have more insight into these issues than one might think. In any case, I take you at your word in summarizing your situation. I would only say, in the end, I think of these things in terms of long range consequences. I also believe there is an important connection between the public and private that tends to be ignored in our world that proclaims "right to privacy" to the heavens. I also believe society is more fragile than one might think as well. I will conclude my commentary on this thread with a wish for your success and happiness. I have meant no malice. I have made my objections to the Iowa Supreme court decision in the most logical and reasonable way possible. At least, that has been my intent. I will continue to argue and work for the common good of society to the best of my ability. The good news is: Baseball season opens next week and my damn Yankees will be in a new ballpark!! Take care, M
Wow ekiM, you serve as a wonderful role model for me and the thousands of other homosexuals who have the opportunity to adopt! I hope to have the chance to fulfill my civic duty someday! And go you for standing up for the fact that bringing another dad into your house wouldn't confuse your son! There are too many myths out there about homosexuality confusing young children, but none of them are supported by research! Thanks for setting the record straight!
Personally, I don't care if a gay couple wants to get married. The issue is that the court cited equal protection. They cannot say that it applies to civil issues only. By their ruling, then income tax rates should be the same for all income levels. People paying different rates based on income is then a violation of equal protection. I think someone should file a suit against the state demanding the same tax rate for all incomes. In the suit they should cite this ruling. If it applies to gay marriage then it should apply to all laws, like income taxes.
Too bad judges now control the morality of once a great state!
The folks who want to restore "traditional" marriage don't take it far enough. We should bring back all aspects of traditional marriage, to whit:
1. Exchange of goods. When I take a wife, I also want the deal to include some cattle, some land, and a dowry.
2. I want multiple wives. More wives = more property and power. King Solomon had what? a few hundred wives? And Abraham. And Isaac. And King David. They were all about as traditional as they come. I want the same.
3. The decision of whom to take as my wives is to be carried out in negotiations with her father. Like Old Testament practice, it should be done on a barter basis. In order to marry the younger, more desirable daughter (eg, Rachel), I promise to first marry the older, less preferred daughter (Leah) and produce sons.
4. Upon my death, property will be passed down to my eldest son only. In the absence of a son, my property will be handed over to my brothers. In the absence of blood brothers, my property will be handed over to my eldest brother in law.
Anything less than this, and the "traditional" marriage folks are just being hypocritical and namby-pamby.
A bad day for civilization indeed, legalizing homosexual or "gay" marriage is against natural law, should be against human law, & against Gods law.
Iowans must amend the State Constitution defining marriage between one woman & one man. However legalize civil union, clearly defining it as common law habitation of two humans only. This would preserve equal rights & limit government role in personal relationships,.
New England has been the battleground of same-sex marriage for the last five years, with every state with either same-sex marriage or a civil union, excluding Rhode Island, who has had a conservative governor, unwilling to sign anything into law.
Although Iowa legalized same-sex marriage, it's very likely that two other states, Vermont and New Hampshire here in New England, will legalize same-sex marriage as well. Vermont passed legislation with flying colors, and even though their governor promised a veto, the legislature thinks they'll get enough votes to overturn his veto with 2/3rds vote. This would be a major landmark.
New Hampshire, the most conservative state in New England, also passed a bill in the house of representatives that would eliminate their civil unions and replace it with marriage. they're the only state in the country that has a civil union that is the exact equivalent of marriage, but without the name.
The right wing needs to understand that certain things should not be subjected to the approval of a majority of strangers. I know the right wing wackjobs will howl and whine about this, and many civil rights veterans will as well, but cosnider this: if we followed the same tired argument of the "will of the people", we may still not have passed the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, and interracial marriage would still be illegal in some states,since a majority of people in several states believed African-Americans should not have equal rights.
The courts are there to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. You cannot legislate morality, and might seldom makes right. Heaven help us if we allow a majority of ignorant, conservative, closed-minded bigots to determine what is "normal: and "acceptable", then we are in big trouble. Also remember; one day you may find the balance is completely in the opposite direction. Would you then accept a far-left majority determining what the law of the land should be, simply because of "majority rule"? Think about it.
If I hear one more time that we need to "let the people vote" I think i'll scream. You folks need to read the United States Constitution. The majority cannot vote on rights of a minority. Believe me.. if that was the case, Blacks wouldn't have rights, interracial marriage would not be allowed and i'm pretty sure that women wouldn't have the right to vote.
Get over it!!
Rob and Jon; I know I said my last post was the other day, but I can't resist; especially when I encounter so much stupidity. The gay marriage issue and inter-racial marriage are not connected. I would explain to you why but I doubt you could follow the arguments. As for the court. The court exists to determine if legislative enactments are consistent with a written constitution. It may mean that at times legislative majorities; which many not always reflect societal majorities, will be upheld. It may also mean that legislative majorities may overturned from time to time. However, they don't exist to sanction the claims of any old minority simply because they are in the minority. So please stop the mantra; "we are a minority therefore our rights are being violated." By definition, they may not be. And, yes, we can legislatge morality. It is done all the time. Now, it may be true not all things that are morally wrong, because of purdence, should be the subject of the law. However, I suppose it is possible to argue there is no morality and so the law has no substantive purpose other than pursuing an agenda; like sanctioning any old right that is claimed. Of course, this was the Nazi view of the Law. The law exists to promote the regime. No need for a constitution in these cases. Finally, until the modern judicial revolution "equal protection of the laws" had a much narrower meaning. But, we could pray in public schools until 1962; Can't imagine how the republic survived so long with that majority tyranny.
we will soon be overrun by gays since we are the only midwest state to legalize gay marraige soon we will have more than we know what to do with.......it will take a tole on sociaty here in iowa and this once great state will be painted up with rainbows and unicorns and all the other "gay" stuff i dont know about you guys but i dont my kids growing up in that kind of state.....LETS ALL MOVE TO SOUTH DAKOTA!!!
I find it funny that most, if not all, of the people that oppose same sex marriage are "devout Christians" I thought the point of being a Christian was to let God do the judging. Aren't we supposed to love unconditionally? If it truly is a sin, and that could be debated as well, then God will Judge them. Until then, all "Christians" need to quit with the hypocrisy. I think it's time to have a look at your Christian roots and decide if you really want to continue judging, or if you want to say, "Even though they are different, they are God's children, so I must love them unconditionally. God will be the final Judge."
In addition to this, we have a separation of Church and State for a reason. This is strictly a religious battle. Every church can still make its own decision as to whether or not to hold a ceremony for a gay couple, so no one's right's are being infringed upon!
For those of us that are younger, we don't remember the Black Civil Rights movement. Think of all the riots and hate. What came out of it? Eventually Blacks got equality. It's about time it came for Gay people.
The more you think, the less you believe. One is not born a polygamist. One is not born incestuous. The majority of pedophiles are NOT homosexual, and have no wish to marry children- only to assert their power over them. If one wishes NOT to believe the obvious fact that people are born gay, (just as they are born black, or female) then one is not thinking. In this country, no ONE group owns civil rights. No one group gets to decide if others [productive members of civil society] are allowed their civil liberties as endowed by this country's Constitution. Destructive members of society go to jail. Want to protect marriage- don't get a divorce!... but keep your religion away from MY Constitution. That is the idea behind the United States. As usual, those who cannot THINK for themselves are pursuing an ideal that is doomed to fail. The unanimous Republican and Democratic judges in Iowa cannot square the belief of ONLY "one woman-one man marriage" with/and EACH woman and each man being entitled to his and her own rights under our Constitution. Congratulations to Iowans and their example of responsibility and fairness. The BELIEFS of gay marriage opponents will never be successful because of their ignorance of Constitutional law. Ultimately, your vote cannot decide whether or not I get my rights. See you in Iowa at my wedding....
Daniel; Sorry, the evidence is not that people are born gay. It appears your understanding of Constitutional law is suspect as well. The interpretive strategy of this court is called the living, breathing strategy: If we can't find a fundamental right in the constitution; and we want a particular fundamental right; then we announce; the constitution is a living, breathing document meant to be upadated for future generations. By whom? Well, by judges of course. There is another way, course, amend the constitution. However, that is much more difficult and the outcome would be less certain.
By the way, has anyone in the equal protection camp noticed, it took constitutional amendments for women to get the universal right to vote and 18 year olds as well. Couldn't get it done by the equal protection clause.
Just from the point of view of an outsider to the U.S., this seems like great news.
Secondly, umm, with all these neo-nazi's commenting, how on earth did Obama win?? Perhaps it's just a case of the minority (haters) being the most out-spoken. Whats that phrase? "Empty vessels make a lot of noise". Yep.
People who qoute a whole lot of nonsensical statistics about gay people should at least cite their sources. It would be interesting to find out who is making it up.
This legislation does not lead to marriage of pedos, animals or polygamy. Mind I can't see why polygamy is so bad, if all the parties involved are consenting, then why not. It's pretty obvious pedophilia and beastiality, amongst other things, are psychological problems, caused by possible past grievances or chemical imbalance. Those people need help. They are not associated with homosexuality. Which is just a natural occurance as sexuality is widely understood to be not a defined catagory, rather a spectrum, with 100% homosexuality and 100% heterosexuality at each end, and due to genetics and chemical makeup, we all fall somewhere on the spectrum.
Very few people are 100% gay or straight, hence our ability to note and percieve attractiveness in both sexes, we are just usually more attracted sexually to one or the other.
Pedophilia and beastiality don't fit AT ALL on this spectrum. They are seperate.
Historically, marriage is not actually traditionally between a man and a woman, so much as one man, and many woman.
Gay parents can definately do the job and do it well, particularly in the sense of cultivating a sense of moral equality and fair treatment of their pairs.
If you are Christian, i'm pretty sure the god you pray to wants you to accept everyone and treat them well, if he exists, he will do the punishing yeah? You don't need to okay?
Also, to say that homosexuals want to encourage atheism is untrue. I'm gay, and I don't believe in god. My parents and nearly my whole family is Catholic, and perhaps it is partly due to my sexuality that I have gained the ability to realise we are not of god or any sort of spirity-hocus pocus or whatever you believe (i'm not trying to offend). It's just clear to me that the whole religion thing and books like the bible were created in an attempt to explain things. They are skewed against gays because the majority of people then, like now was straight, hence the people who wrote it were of the opinion they were the normal ones, and it was also more likely straight people would write such books, simply beacause there was more of them. (Not 98% as much more I hasten to add!! lol).
Anyway, as a person, i am secular, and i'm happy for anyone to believe whatever they want to believe, you just can't force it on other people!!
Everything has a rational explanation. We are all equal!
Thank you IOWA - -I am so proud of our state!
To all the people who beleave in pushing hate
I have been gay all my life, being gay is not a choice, but a way of life! I have spent most of my life being judge by other people, and have been told more times than I can count how I'm going to hell for who I am. Let just say so meny people are sceaming about my beleifs being pushed on people, but what about your beleifs being pushed on me. I don't say anyone is going to hell because they beleave that man should be with woman and thats it. I beleave we all should just live and let live. It is a sad world when limit our selfs to hate, and it's even wrost when we tell our kids that. I think people would think twice, when a younge kid kills himself or her self, because they are gay, and they have no where to turn because some lame back hills thought says we"re damed because we beleave or live a differnt way. I do beleave in GOD, but also beleave that he has enough in his heart for you and me. And if this is all about a sin, than what about the part thats says judging anyone is a sin. So if I must go to hell for my life than I will meet so meny of you their, BECAUSE NO SIN IS GREATER THAN THE NEXT.
Homosexual activity is simply a vice like drinking or smoking.
It is not evil and certainly not immoral if the latter two aren't. So why are people who engage in this vice viewed as an unofficial protected class?
I have a few questions! How does any of this effect your life in anyway? How does two men or two women getting married effect anyones life but there own? People have all types of opinions and beliefs, however being a homosexual is just a word people have given us and WE are still people know matter what! Being gay is the way of life for some people and theres know changing it! The issue is not going anywhere however we as a nation, as Iowans can rise above what other states are doing and be a leader, be what other states want and live life like we all have been, but living life as a whole and not as haters! Martin luther king jr. lead a great life in changing the way America is today!! What would have happened if HE DIDN"T STEP UP and change life?
I am a 23 year old heterosexual woman who recently had the privilege of getting married. I call it a privilege because while Iowa has finally recognized marriage between same-sex couple the rest of the country has decided to use their privilege to discriminate against same-sex couples. Today I want to leverage my privilege of being heterosexual to give a voice to those who cannot yet marry.
To those of you who believe that homosexuality is a choice, when did you make the “choice” to be heterosexual? I don’t think you did. If being gay was the norm, would you be able to make the “choice” to be attracted to a person of the same sex?
I think many people, left and right, have a hard time understanding the purpose of courts. The courts do not make laws, they do not ignore the will of the population, the sole purpose of the courts is pass judgement on the validity of a law compared against the constitution of a body. In essence, they rule if a passing majority's law is consistent with the most basic of rules set by the population themselves.
To those who would make this issue out to be different from slavery, or women's suffrage that is also clearly misguided. You may be able to choose who you sleep with, or marry, but ask any homosexual, you are not able to choose who you love. It is not the place of the Moral Majority to dictate who someone should associate with, and it is not the place of the law to deny someone equal rights because they are not a part of the Majority. The United States has always been about upholding the will of the Majority, whilst defending the rights of the Minority. If it weren't this way, there would never have been an American Dream.
People keep using the fact you cannot procreate as proof God did not want same sex couples. Yet those of us that can, man/woman couples, seem to be taking liberties with the ability. Gay/Lesbian couples actually plan their life around having a kid. Hetero couples are draining resources and over-populating the earth. And unfortunately it's often the poor and uneducated of the planet that seem to be having the most kids which is an even more impossible a situation. But what if God is smarter than all of us. I don't think any Christian would argue against that. What if God realizes we aren't able to control our urges in a way that we protect the future. What if God realizes we are using our resources and damaging our planet because there are just too many people. He hasn't passed down His word in a really long time. What if He could produce a revised Bible. Do you think he might state things differently today? Do you think he'd mention 'Thou shalt not drive a vehicle that gets less that 20 mpg?' Or 'Thou shalt not have more children than you can support'. No one would believe it is the word of God of course. You'd be locked up as crazy. Despite 'belief', no one believes things can change. Perhaps the only thing He can do to help us is to evolve His creation. Evolve them to where a percent of us will not further the destruction of His planet by over population. It's just a 'What if..' But 'what if' homosexuality is by God's plan? How would that make you feel?
I find the argument [What's next; 2 men and a goat?] to be so common and self disclosing of pure ignorance. The argument is absurd; but it does however frame the ignorance of people who say it. To make that argument, one must truly believe that same gender lovers are less of a person and only those individuals who can love the opposite gender are worthy of a commitment that is recognized in the eyes of the law.
The ignorance of the population that is against equal rights for homosexual individuals is emotional rather than rational. When homosexual relationships are banned from marriage - we can easily pass judgment without the fear of social persecution. We can hate them, make jokes about them, and bash their existence. For example; when black people and women did not have the right to vote, we could easily judge them as less of people or people whose opinions did not matter. We could feel superior to their existence; however once the law allowed them to vote - it was the negative judgments against black people and women that became the focus of social persecution. If you continued to view black people and women as insignificant - you were the one being judged as sexist or racist (there is a moral deficiency "recognized" in you now) - and that is why it is so threatening!
I think there are a lot of folks here who don't truly understand what being an American means. From the pilgrims who came here to flee persecution to african-americans and women gaining the right to vote, America is based on the Constitution that ALL MEN are created equal. It did not say, only Straight men. Indeed, there should be a separation of Church and State, so unless WE as a country REDEFINE marriage to only pertain to the Church and does NOT include LEGAL rights and benefits of both Federal and State, it is VERY much the Supreme Courts' right to determine whether marriage should be between only a man or a woman, or between two consenting adults of legal age, who have made a commitment to love and cherish each other and care for each other in the eyes of the LAW, not GOD.
If homophobic Churches want to create a new term to define this very commitment as only between a man and woman so they can keep their ceremonies restricted to their religious beliefs, I'm all for it but keep it restricted only for their religion and out of the STATE and Federal Constitution as those are designed to protect ALL human beings, not just straight ones.
I am still looking for the phrase "separation of church and state" in the U.S. Constitution, but I can't find it. Can someone help me??? Can you tell me where I can find it?? Thanks.
Would someone please explain exactly how same-sex marriage cheapens, ruins, demeans, etc, heterosexual marriage? What is it about a same-sex couple obtaining legal treatment equal to that afforded to heterosexuals, that thereby lowers the bar for heterosexuals? Isn't it more accurate to say that this actually elevates same-sex couples to enjoy and share in a (presumed) higher status held by heterosexuals? Isn't that really what this is about? (to paraphrase, if homosexuals are just the same as heterosexuals under the law, then it follows that the reverse is true - heterosexuals are just the same as homosexuals. God forbid that thought, thinks the fearful and insecure hetero; I am NOT the same as a homosexual).
Otherwise I just don't get what all the fuss is about. It seems that some heterosexuals are just TORTURED by their own thoughts (fantasies, projections, neuroses) about what might be going on somewhere in the privacy of someone else's life.
Well, I live in the wonderful state of MA, where we've had 'gay marriage' for many years....and believe it or not, the sky hasn't fallen. It's quite simple to me, and that is that all individuals have the basic right of marrying whomever they choose (regardless of their gender). We as Americans should be offended by the notion proposed by the radical/religious right which asserts that we have the right to dictate who our fellow Americans can and can not fall in love with. Aren't we better than this?
Although, I was surprised by the news from the internet about 'Iowa allowing gay marriage'.....because I guess I thought, 'wow, I thought Iowa was all farms? Interesting that these farmers are so fair and broad minded. hmmm?
Anyway, the residents of Iowa should feel proud of being one of the early States to validate the rights of the queer/gay community within their state. One day we will all look back at this and wonder 'how did we ever think we had the right to dictate to others, whom they should fall in love with'
Well done Iowa : )
Be well, Terry M. (Cambridge MA)
p.s. for those that have not embraced this notion as yet, set aside your fear and take note that by allowing others to have their 'civil rights' you are not harmed.....the sky won't fall.
Hey Mike, I think it's in the 'Bill of Rights'....but I could be wrong : )
Hey TerryM, you are wrong. The phrase is not in the Bill of Rights, nor anywhere else in the Constitution. It appeared in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson expressing his viewpoint of what the first Amendent could mean. For most of our consitutional history the first Amendment prohibition against the establishment of religion simply meant: The Government could not mandate a particular denomination to be the state religion. Modern secularists, which would include most on the forum in support of gay marriage, have worked very hard to have the first Amendment mean the government cannot, in anyway, mix or support a general religious viewpoint. Now, those are two very different meanings of the first Amendment. The first meaning was the context and intent of the founders. The second meaning is the context and intent of the destroyers. By the way, the second meaning was also the meaning given to religous freedom in the old Soviet Union. And yes I know first hand since I was in and out of the Soviet Union on numerous occassions in the 70s and 80s. The Soviet Officials I met with always argued they permitted freedom of religion. Everyone was free to have religious belief in private but COULD NEVER EXPRESS RELIGIOUS VIEWS IN PUBLIC OR TRY TO USE RELIGION AS THE BASIS FOR POLICY. So, please; no more of the separation of church and state mantra.
To those who believe that a recognized gay marriage right does not impinge on religious freedom: I assume then you would:
Not require religious based social service agencies to offer adoption to gay couples?
Not require doctors and nurses in religious based hospitals to perform procedures to provide children to gay couples?
Not impose a duty on doctors and nurses in secular hospitals to participate in the above practices contrary to their consciences?
Not require religious institutions who may employ gays to offer the same benefits that would be offered to married couples?
Of course religious based social service agencies could not be required to offer adoption to gay couples and likewise, doctors and nurses in religious based hospitals could not be required to perform procedures to provide children to gay couples. It would be their option... After marriage equality came to Massachusetts, Catholic Charities, which had facilitated a number of gay adoptions previously, elected to stop doing so. It was their choice.
ekim; They stopped providing any adoptions because the law was going to REQUIRE they provide adoptions to gay couples. So much for gay marriage not having anything to do with forcing others to accept it. Or, impinging on others religious beliefs.
umm mike, how does the assurance that adoption agencies do not discriminate in who they adopt children to force people to accept gay marriage? It doesn't. And don't get upset about something that didn't even happen!
Also adoption agencies shouldn't be making decisions with their own religious beliefs in mind anyway! Not that I know of a religion that warns against its followers helping gay couples adopt..but anyway.
If the entire argument from the opposing side is based from a religious stand point, then who do you think you are, God?! What right do you have to judge? The only person who should be allowed to judge is God and that's when you are standing in front of him and pleading your own case. If God didn't want there to be homosexual people, than he wouldn't have put them here. I am a God fearing woman just like you but I don't believe God would intend for anyone to treat other people this way. It sickens and disheartens me to think that there are people out there who have gone as far as to say death unto them. Everyone has a right to their opinions but death threats are a federal offense and deserve the utmost attention from the government. Maybe you who say this should think about what other laws prevent you from killing and threatening to take someone's life before you spew your tyrant hatred in a public forum. This country has built itself on its EQUAL RIGHT FOR ALL and yet you stand to fight against this? This times are changing and that's that. Ask yourself this, would you want anyone in your life living in fear of you? Completely and utterly afraid to tell you the truth about who they are because you may end it. Parents condemning their children to hell for being who they are, siblings turning their backs on each other simply for loving someone who has the same body parts. Is that who you want to be when God sends for you? Judging a person for who they are is not our right, based on religion. The love is no different nor does it mean any less than it does between a man and a woman. Homosexual couples are just as devoted and caring to one another as the relationship between a man and a woman. Let them have their happy endings in life just like anyone else.
Since when is it legal to mix church with state? The Iowa Supreme Court did not base their decision from a religious stand point because they can't and shouldn't. Life is filled with tests from God on each and every one of us, did you ever think you just failed yours? Argue that your God isn't like that, well, prove it. The God I was raised to believe in would never condone murder of another human being, it's a commandment. Having an opinion is one thing but threatening others to instill it is another. Equal rights should include everyone in this country and the world. Not just the people other people have chosen. April 3, 2008 still is a proud day for equal rights and shall stay that way.
Remember who you were and are when heaven calls for you, because they will.
Mike, I stand corrected. Catholic Charities of Boston WAS required by law to continue to facilitate adoptions to any qualified individuals or couples, including lesbian and gay persons. The agency had been facilitating adoptions by gay and lesbian parents for years (one such family, two fabulous moms, are friends of mine from my church) but suddenly the Catholic Church ordered the practice stopped. "Sadly, we have come to a moment when Catholic Charities in the Archdiocese of Boston must withdraw from the work of adoptions, in order to exercise the religious freedom that was the prompting for having begun adoptions many years ago," [Archbishop Sean P.] O'Malley said in a statement. The Church chose to act in accordance with its values and beliefs. In deed this position DID place the agency on the wrong side of the law, but it is interesting to note that this had nothing to do with the arrival of marriage equality in Massachusetts; it was because of the larger equal protection issue. All adoptions in process were completed. Within weeks, other agencies, public and private, filled the void. All 15 adoption professionals who were employed by Catholic Charities found employment in compliant agencies. Thankfully, individual liberty and religious liberty are coexisting in Massachusetts! Sadly though, there are still not enough couples and individuals willing to step up to the plate and adopt one of the many thousands of older children waiting to be chosen. Here in Massachusetts, the state Department of Children and Families ACTIVELY RECRUITS lesbian and gay couples and individuals to be adoptive parents; I am one of the recruits (although they didn’t really get a chance to twist my arm...I went to them with the decision.) The bottom line for religious freedom: It’s alive and well. Worship and religious practice are safe. No church will ever be required to endorse or perform same sex weddings. No church will ever be required to grant full membership to lesbian and gay individuals who live their lives openly and authentically. But when a church chooses to provide state regulated services to the public, they step outside their constitutionally protected zone. This is as it should be here in America.
"But when a church chooses to provide state regulated services to the public, they step outside their constitutionally protected zone." Well said, ekim. And by the way, congrats and kudos for what you are doing for your son. And in breaking news just now, today... Vermont makes it 4! Cheers to Vermont for overriding the governor's veto and doing the right thing.
Oh my GOD, Jumpin' Jehovah!!!!!!! I heard it from YOU before I saw the headline. What wonderful news!!! I have a little log cabin in VT and spend much vacation time there. Between living in Massachusetts and summering in Vermont, you'd think I could find a damn HUSBAND, but noooooooooo!
And this time, it wasn't the activist judges legislating from the bench. It was those activist legislators legislating actively as the people's representatives from the State Legislature! What will the right-wingers say now? Those darn Legislative activists! How dare they presume to legislate from the legislature!
AND...they warn about what will happen "come next election day..." Well...in Vermont, what they'll do is vote out the wingnuts that were AGAINST marriage equality. Yay Vermont!!!!!
There's no end to this today... Now the Wash DC council makes a move (from www.foxnews.com):
WASHINGTON -- The D.C. Council has voted to recognize gay marriages performed in other states. Lawmakers say Tuesday's unanimous vote moves the city a step closer to eventually allowing same-sex marriages to be performed in the nation's capital. Gay couples married in other states are currently recognized as domestic partners when they move to Washington.
The council will hold a final vote on the measure next month. The D.C. Council's action comes the same day that Vermont became the fourth state to legalize gay marriage, joining Connecticut, Massachusetts and Iowa.
What is this? Equality to be recognized inside the nation's capitol?
This message is for Mike,
Hes is what the 1st amendment says.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
So by going what your say about "seperation of Chruch & State" I am free to marry as a Homosexual because my church recognizes gay marriage.
And I quote "prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Or is this a case you would rather have us pick and choose what the Bill Of Rights say?
This message is also for Mike.
Since you like to take things so litteral and there is no "speperation of Church & State". What is our National Religion? For that matter what is any STate Religion? ANd if there are not any, why Not? Also if there are not any, why don't you try to get one.
Inquiring minds want to know!
Mr. King; alas, you haven't understood a word of what I said about the establishment clause. At the time the first Amendment was written the establishment clause meant the Federal Government could not say the Anglican Church, for example, was the official church of the country; or the Catholic Church; or the Baptist Church, or any other particular denomination. In fact, originally, the First Amendment didn't even apply to the states. But that is another story. However, it was not meant to preclude government involvement with general religious practices or prevent the expression of religious, commonly shared viewpoints; otherwise, someone like Lincoln would have been speechless!! Today, however, there is an attempt to constrain religious expression within the four walls of home and church. Additionally, as the state becomes more and more controlling over every aspect of our lives; there can be little room left for advocacy based on religious principles, if the argument is "you can practice your religion anyway you like outside a public regulated activity." Of course, that is exactly what took place under communist regimes. The argument went something like this: There must be a separation of Church and state. The state is everything. Therefore the church is nothing.
Finally, it is time to end the public education system. Every parent must be allowed to keep their portion of taxes for schools to be spent at the school of their choice. This way parents can exercise their right (you like the word???)
to control the education of their children.
Whoops! I submitted the above for William King. It wasn't written by him.
Gay people have always had the same rights as straight people when it comes to marriage. This is pandering to a lifestyle choice. Expanding the definition of marriage beyond that of one man and one woman is a mistake. It is not enhancing civil rights. It is providing specific privilege to a specific group. It is not like denying African Americans the right to vote. No the sky will not fall but our politically oriented judicial system may. Legislating from the bench is not the original intent of the founding fathers for the judicial branch of government.
So why should I pay taxes for the salaries of these judicial legislators to not interpret the law but create a law to pander to a specific group? That is not their job. They should be fired just like the CEO of GM.
The new administration in Washington is intensely secular in their views will and are drastically change the direction of our Nation. The war on religion (more specifically Christianity) in America is being turned up. Socialism and religion do not go well together. Giving homosexuals the right to marry does not impinge on any religious freedom. Freedom is a gift from the True God who is in control of all of what is going on. He is handing us over to our own desires because we refuse to acknowledge him. Our national obsession with rights without responsibility is what this is all about. The Politicians and judges who bring about the type of laws that are the subject of this article could care less about anyone's rights. They just want to be elected and have the power that gives them.
Gary. Just to address the points you make. First you say gay people have always had the same as straight in the US. Then you say that expanding the right to marry to gays is a mistake. Your second statement completely contradicts your first!!! (??) Also, it is not giving a privilege to specific group - it is, as you said, expanding a privilege so far only enjoyed by heterosexual couples to gay couples. Next, if being gay is a lifestyle choice, when did you choose to be straight? I just simply can't recall when I chose my sexuality. Odd. Last point, there is no war on christian religion in America, the country is still intensely religious and mostly christian, nothing will change that.
Hope that helps you.
i really am excited to see that IOWA legalized gay marriage, it finally says hey we realize that they are HUMAN too and they deserve the same rights as straight people. and they legalized gay adoption!!!!!! we are soo excited, we are in the process of adopting our foster children, and we cant wait!!!
right now we have 2 children and they are estatic that they will have a few new siblings!!!
we cant be happier. for those of you who object to this, we arent hurting you!! you dont watch us in our own homes!, we are just like anyone of you except that we love the same sex! we ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN YOU!!
we should have the same rights as straight couples!!
and to the person who said he has gay friends omfg! who in the world are you fooling?!?! you dont have gay friends, if they knew who you really were they wouldnt be friends with your arrigont selfish attitude!!! you are really 2face a##hole
I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A LESBIAN AND I AM PROUD TO SAY WE ARE A LESBIAN FAMILY
I AM ALSO PROUD TO SAY THAT WE ARE PROUD LESBIAN MOMS
I AM PROUD TO SAY WE ARE 2 PROUD LESBIAN FOSTER MOMS!!!
I AM PROUD TO SAY WE WILL BE 2 PROUD LESBIAN ADOPTIVE MOMS!!!
we are here to take children who no one wants!! we love them we should have the rights as you straight couples to have children, to be able to share our partners medical, to have both of our names in the birth certifercate!!
you people that dont agree and think you need to say crap are selfish arrogant people!!
and for those straight people who stick up for us GLBT people THANK YOU!!!!
from the PROUD LESBIAN MOM, PROUD TO BE SOON TO BE LESBIAN ADOPTIVE MOMS, AND PROUD TO BE A LESBIAN FOSTER MOM, AND PROUD TO BE A LESBIAN PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is where the big lie begins: "We have the right to have both our names on the birth certificate." No!! You do not. The only names on any birth certificate ought to be the biological parents. Period.
I DONT THINK THERE SHOULD BE BIOLOGICAL PARENTS ON THERE!!!!
MY PARTNER AND I ARE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING HER NAME ON OUR CHILDRENS BIRTH CERTIFERCATES!!!!!!!! IM SOOO FREAKIN HAPPY!!!
IT TAKES THE BIOLOGICAL FATHERS NAME OFF THEIR BIRTH CERTIFERCATES!!!
I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MY SON'S BIO DAD THANK FREAKIN GOD
NOW WOULD YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMEONES NAME ON A BIRTH CERTIFERCATE IF HE SEXUALLY MOLESTED YOUR DAUGTER?!?!?!
HELL THE F* NO YOU WOULDNT!!!!!
NOW I GOT MY POINT ACROSS!!!
OUR CHILDREN DESERVE TO HAVE BOTH THEIR PARENTS ON THE BIRTH CERTIFERCATE AND WHEN I SAID BOTH PARENTS I MEAN BOTH OF THEIR MOMS WHO TAKE CARE OF THEM!!!!
OR BOTH DADS WHO TAKE CARE OF THEM!
WE DESERVE AND OUR CHILDREN DESERVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR PARENTS ON THEIR BC!!!
YOU ARE JUST AN ARROGANT AS*HOLE THAT NEEDS TO GO BACK TO REALITY!!!
THANKS MIKE FOR YOUR OPINION ITS NOT FAVORED! BUT U NEED TO GO BACK TO REALITY!!!!!!
IM SOOO GLAD FOR IOWA!!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR GIVING US GLBT PEOPLE THE SAME RIGHTS AS HETEROSEXUALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MY PARTNER IS ADOPTING MY CHILDREN WHO ALSO HAPPEN TO BE HER CHILDREN, I GAVE BIRTH TO THEM AND SHE HAS BEEN RAISING THEM FOR A LONG TIME NOW!!! AND SO GUESS WHAT SHE IS THE PARENT!!!
AND HER NAME WILL BE ON THE BIRTH CERTIFERCATE!!!
A birth certifcate is not a commentary on the moral character of the parent. There is a reason it is called a birth certificate and not a parent certificate. As I said; the big lie begins here. And official records ought not to be doctored to make someone feel good. They are what they are.
Congrats! Iowa! The court decided the right way. I used to live in Iowa and at one time couldn't wait to get the hell out. But now Iowa, my home state, is ahead of New York and California. Indded, we cannot yet buy booze or wine in grocery store yet, but you can in Iowa.
As for the usual arguments such as "it threatens the institution of marriage", I wonder HOW?!! or "it's not biblical". You're right it's not biblical, as most marriages listed in the Bible are polygamous. When you examine (and social conservatives don't) the original Bibical texts, a great deal has been "lost in translation" to satisfy church authorities and others for nearly two millenia. Iowa rocks!
Mike!!! YOU ARE AN AS#
YOU REALLY DNT KNOW WHAT LIVES WE LIVE AND U KNOW WHAT ITS CALLED ADOPTION!!!!!!!!
YOU STRAIGHT PEOPLE WERE TO ADOPT A CHILD YOUR NAMES WOULD BE ON THAT CHILDS BIRTH CERTIFERCATE!!!!!!!! ITS CALLED A NEW BIRTH CERTIFERCATE WHEN THEY ARE ADOPTED
SO MY GIRLFRIEND THE KIDS OTHER MOM HAVE THE RIGHT!!!! TO HAVE HER NAME ON IT!!!!!!!!! YOUR BIGOTRY REALLY NEEDS TO LEAVE THIS SITE AND GO TEACH YOUR KIDS SOME MORALS OF BEING KIND AND RESPECT EVERYONE AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE A CRASH COURSE TOOO IN RESPECT AND MORALS AND TREATING EVERYONE HOW YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET A LIFE AND GROW THE F@ UP!!!!
MY KIDS UNDERSTAND THE WORD RESPECT, MY PARTNER AND I HAVE 9 FOSTER KIDS!!! AND 2 OF OUR BIRTH CHILDREN
AGES RANGE FROM 4MONTHS OLD-17 YOU REALLY NEED TO GROW UP
MY KIDS AS YOUNG AS THEY ARE UNDERSTAND THE WORD LOVE, RESPECT, HONOR, CHERISH, AND EQUAL THEY LOVE THAT THEY HAVE 2 MOMS TO RUN TO!!! THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOOO PROBLEM!!
SO SERIOUSLY GET A LIFE AND I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU ARENT TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ON HERE!!
I have no difficulty with the concept of a "New Birth Certificate" that references the names of adoptive parents. As long as the original birth certificate still exists there is no problem. I leave, without comment, the rest of your rantings.
Finally the moment of fairness in a civilized society who respects the union of love for loving couples of independent of what gender you are.
It will go down in history as the liberation day, and the end of oppression era by the religious bigots.
Consider these hypotheticals:
Assume the absolute equality in all respects between a married couple (man/woman) and a homosexual couple (woman/woman or; man/man). Age, character, finances, health and so on. Now, assume both couples want to adopt a baby that is available for adoption. Should the adoption agency give preference to the heterosexual couple? Homosexual couple? Or; should the issue be decided by a metaphorical coin toss?
Now, assume the above initial facts, with the only difference being the person available for adoption is 13. Furthermore, assume the 13 year old has no knowledge of the specific life circumstances of either couple other than one couple is heterosexual and the other homosexual. Should the 13 year be given a choice?
Only a person with the intelligence of a goat would say something like this: "What's next, Two Men and a goat?"
Or that this person is so deranged that it would pose a serious threat to our society.
I agree with foolishness. What is next? If homosexual marriage is a right, then why isn't polygamy a right? Why can a 14 yr old be thrown in jail for making out with a 13 year old when it is consentual by both (we're not talking sexual intercourse, just making out)? Yes, this is against the law. Why do we limit marriage to 18, or 16 with a parent's consent? How about someone whose preference is sex with an animal? Should Iowa should legalize that too. Equal rights to all!!! Right??? You can't argue that it is not natural if you are arguing man and man or woman and woman is natural. It is a sexual preference...a sexual orientation! Right??
I am not saying gays should be the target of harrassment. I am not saying they should be denied jobs. By all means, if they are the most qualified, go for it! Just like a 60 yr old should be hired over a 25 yr old if they are the most qualified.
Ultimately, it will be the gay person who will pay the price when they meet their maker. And I don't think God is going to say, hey, your lifestyle was just fine with me, that's how I made you.
And ultimately all the Christians will have questions to answer if we just sit back and don't stand up for God's Word. We may not win every battle, but the final victory will be ours if we are standing on HIS WORD.
To any politicians out there reading these comments, if God is your ruler, your judge, then you CAN NOT separate religion and politics. In the end, YOU will be judged for each of your actions just as every human being on this earth. God will not say it was OK because it was the political arena rather than the religious arena. When the nations of God turned away from God, they were defeated. When they were faithful to God, even when greatly outnumbered, they were victorious. Our state and nation need to head this historical wisdom.
y
our children are learning that its ok to be gay,im not ok with that.a decision made by an adult reflects apon the children that look their way.i will overt my childs sight as long as i can,and when i cant i will explain the sick and twisted views of so many liberals that push their ideals or lack their of off on those who dont have the platform to defend their right not to allow these forms of opression apon their children,i am strong enough to deflect your opressive ideals and soon my child will be impervius to your perverse attempt to tarnish possitive free thinking
gay people adopting children so they can turn normal children into gay children sick man how sick
Email Address *
Your email address will not be published. (We add your Gravatar icon if you have one)
Name *
Your Website URL
Comment *
Maximum of 4000 chars. (0/4000)
(Fields marked * are mandatory)
Use the link below to share this poll.
You can also place this poll on your website or blog as a widget. Simply copy and paste the code below into your HTML.
Alternatively, we now support oEmbed.
