Should Amador County continue to fight the Buena Vista Casino?

Yes, we have to try...the crime has already started at the newly opened Red Hawk, people are wandering aimlessly through the neighborhoods because they can't read a simple freeway sign, NO .. we have one, it's more than enough and if you don't fight this one and the Plymouth one we may as well cash in on our quality of life here.

It was a just fight, but we lost. Stop spending money that the County does not have.

It will look real out of place, at least the Jackson Ranchriea is semi hidden. The Buena Vista site is right out in the open,in the middle of raw open land. Inside rumors have it as a done deal along time ago. It is a shame that the B.V. site only makes a family of 3 rich.

It is a shame that the Jackson Valley Loudmouths were able to pressure the BOS to pursue this lawsuit. It is over and there should not be an appeal unless those folks want to pony up the money for the county to appeal.

How many more employees will be terminated so the BOS can continue paying attorneys to fight this cause. They have already wasted enough
money on their new Government Center 'Palace' and the New Welfare
Taj Mahal !!!

just look at what the supervisors did already with the money offer they turned down. now they want to spent MORE of the countys money to fight the casino. they need to sit down and THINK about the budget and how Not to waste the county's money. the county can not afford the legal battle. they have spent way too much money on this already.

For all those who want to give up the fight here are some reasons to continue on. There are many, many more.
1. Highway partol reports regarding the Thunder Valley casino recorded a 900% increase in traffic accidents around that casino. The roads around the BV site are more dangerous. BV is 4 miles off Hwy88, accessed only by narrow two-lane roads that have 20 school bus stops twice a day and foggy Winter weather and might have a casino that serves alcohol. Not a pretty picture.
2. The so called Tribe has one voting member who makes 1.6 million a year right now. Ask yourself, why quit fighting just so some wealthy non-Indian backer can become more wealthy and someone who already gets 1.6 million can get even more money?
2. The entire Indian gaming process is corrupt to the core. Are we just going to accept that corruption?
3. Why give in before you know how much it will cost to continue the fight?
4. How much is the safety of our school children worth? Even if the casino would save one county employee's job, are one or even several county jobs worth the life of a child? What good would it do to save one job and then have that family loose some family member to a drunk casino patron?

"No casino fan" - FYI I'm one of those you call a "Loudmouth." Didn't take long for the comments turn to demeaning someone who holds an opposing view. If that's the label you want to place on me for fighting to save our kids than I'll proudly accept that label. By the way, us "loudmouths" offered the services of our attorney to the county for FREE. We made that offer years ago and have restated that offer at public meetings and in writing several times since then. Check with your supervisor if you don't believe me.

I for one am willing to have my tax dollars spent fighting corruption and greed that is rampant everywhere from Washington D. C. all the way to Sacramento, especially when that corruption and greed will put our kids life in danger. If we don't demand an end to the politicial corruption and greed it will never stop.

Jerry Cassesi,
AKA
"Loudmouth"

Hey no casino fan, im a loud mouth re my 80 year young mother. she lives real close to the site. this rural area hasn't seen a tribal member or any tribal activities for 30 years. It is a piece of property that once a long time ago was a reservation. Now with the muliti million dollar indian casinos going in, including reservation shopping, buy a piece of land and turn it over to the fedral government trust and your in buisness, its a bunch of B.S. Hey wy don't you trade houses with one of those poor people on the road leading to the casino? NIMBY

I believe the County should continue the fight. First, the supervisors took an oath to uphold the law and any one familiar with the history of the Oliver family and the BV property knows the land at Buena Vista is not eligible for a casino under the IGRA. All the rancheria lands in Amador County were purchased for the homeless Indians of California and not for any particular Band or Tribe were not held in trust and were not reservations. The land at BV is not now a reservation and it is not currently held in trust per the BIA and is simply not eligible for gaming under the IGRA. One casino operating in Amador County on land not eligible for a gambling more than enough.
The dismissal was a very narrow technical decision and none of the other issues raised by the County, which I believe are more relevant to the illegality of the proposed casino in BV, were addressed by the Court. No decision has ever been made by DOI that the property at Buena Vista is eligible for gambling under the IGRA - OPINIONS from attorneys at the NIGC are not decisions and the opinion for Buena Vista is simply ludicrous. If you go to the NIGC web site you can read the BV lands opinion where Amador County created a federal Indian reservation. Ridiculous. While you are there read the lands opinion for the Jackson Rancheria - won't take long.
The methods employed since 1996 by Potts, Pope, the BIA, DOI, and NIGC to build an illegal casino at BV by ignoring the law is a corrupt creation from beginning to the present.
The Supreme Court landmark Indian Lands 8-1 Decision in Sherrill was initiated by the small town of Sherrill NY (~1000). They lost in every court until the case was heard by the US Supreme Court. It's the last case that matters and the I would encourage the BOS to fight this proposed illegal casino, uphold the law, and protect the the citizens of Amador County. Now is the time to get up dust ourselves off and get back in the fight - it is not time to give in to corrupt bureaucrats in Sacramento and Washington D.C.

Now to my opinion on the loudmouths from Jackson Valley - Thank God we have them - we need more in Amador County like them.

These arguments have been made over and over. It has not worked so far. How much money do you spend? There is probably a group still trying to stop the Shingle Springs Casino. Enough.

Enough,
While you may have heard what you call "these arguments" many times these FACTS have never been argued in Court. "These arguments" and facts have never been presented in a Court of Law. The DOI has never delivered a decision on whether the BV property is eligible for gaming. To date the only way for ordinary citizens such as you and I to get such a decision is to go to court. If you have some information that proves conclusively that the land is eligible,that the tribe is legitimate and that the law has been followed in the approval for a casino at BV then make it public. To date the DOI, BIA, NIGC and the tribe have failed to produce such information. All I ask is that the law be obeyed in the approval and siting of casinos. Obviously, this is too much to ask of government in the 21st Century or for some citizens to ask/expect of government as well.

How much does the county pay to see the phrase ''dismissed''?

Hey Enough, We have presented creditable evidence that loss of life will happen. Do you have evidence to dispute that fact? If not, just how much is the life of one child or one family member worth to you? 8 million, 4 million - what would you call a good deal?

Remember it's not just school bus traffic, please consider that every resident in the Camanche area dirves those roads daily. Have you ever driven those roads when it's foggy? How much money should the county get as a trade for one of their lives?

Your talking money and granted that's important but we are talking life itself. Dropping the fight now will cut financial costs but that is only temporarily and only one consideration. What about the loss of life that is sure to follow a casino? When and how is that stopped?

I'm truly saddened by how some Amador County residents place more value on money than they do life itself. Maybe it's because they think that it's not their life that will be put in danger so why worry about it. Perhaps it's a hoped for reduction in tax's or the thought that a job might be saved or maybe it's the hope for a reduction in Jackson casino traffic. Maybe it's a combination of all of those things that some value more than the lives of those loudmouth's living in Jackson Valley.
On the other hand I'm very pleased that the majority of Amador County residents do not feel as you do. Thank goodness most Amador County residents are willing to stand up to corruption, greed and the willful disregard for the lives of Amador County residents.

Jerry Cassesi
AKA Loudmouth

I have watched the new Red Hawk Casino in El Dorado County and know the funds that were spent to fight that over the years. Way more was spent to fight that one than the Buena Vista and the Plymouth Casinos. It is a waste of money to continue the fight in this economy. How many jobs will this Casino create and how much money will this bring into our dying economy. Those of you who are so very against this have not yet weighed the pros and cons. You only see what can happen not what will happen. "What if's" are not a factual measurement - only what is. El Dorado County seems to have a win-win situation there and it has not been troublesome for the traffic.

Tired and Enough.....
You have it down. My sentiments exactly.
Give it a rest people and don't spend any money on this fight. I can't imagine being opposed to growth, jobs for people in the community and health and safety services.

The County is broke, layoffs are everywhere and we all need jobs. It seems a good portion of the No Casino people are retired and have a nice retirement check already. What about those of us raising families, no job, no retirement checks. Trying to pay for our houses and water and utility bills, etc. We desperately need jobs in Amador County. The BOS should not spend anymore taxpayer money on this cause. Bring on the Casino and jobs.

It was the U.S. Congress that made the law it deemed necessary to right wrongs long suffered in this Country. Thank God it wasn't a small group of inherently devious and self-serving souls from a small valley or rural Waco that is in charge in this country. The legalese adage is when you have the facts concentrate on presenting the facts. When you don't have any facts pound out the Bullshippy. For 5 years the citizens of Amador have been pounded with untruths about the effects of a casino. With their so called "facts" failing the test of time they resort to auras of endangered children and overloading cemeteries. Lets stick to the facts. Amador needs jobs, our county government is at the point of not having funds to produce and provide the facilities children need to prepare for their future. Not long ago a youth died driving home from Sober Grad. Accidents happen, they don't rule.

Casino promoters depend on everyone giving up or running out of money. They tell you that it'll be a boost to the economy. It's a model that casino developers have followed for years across the country. The fact is that California's problem gamblers and gambling-related problems has grown exponentially since class III casinos have spread. That is a fact born out by cold, hard numbers. Lincoln, home to Thunder Valley, has seen property-related crimes (cash-generating crimes for those broke compulsive gamblers) skyrocket between 2003 when the casino opened and 2005.

It's a fact that the underprivileged and senior citizens, two groups most inclined to gamble, suffer greatly from gambling losses. It's also a fact that gambling addicts provide the majority of gambling revenue. I'm not making this stuff up. It's all verifiable from highly-credible sources.

What's fun about losing money? Especially when it goes into a closed system that will not pay corporate, sales or property taxes. There are a great many programs available to Native Americans to help develop business plans (non-casino) and provide money and resources to develop tribal businesses. I guess the fast money, quick fix of a casino is best for those who aren't interested in making a decent living that doesn't prey on others.

Keep up the fight... don't loose hope because that is what they want! Fight for what you know is right and you will not be sorry. Help each other as they tire and encourage the tired to keep going. Your effort is not going unheard, even if it seems that way. We all must stand up for what is right and lead the children of the future. We can't sit back and let go because if we do evil will win and our children will loose. It is our children and their future that we are doing this for!

GET THE GOLDEN EGG!

Keep up the fight. Our town has totally changed since the casino came in. We have more crime; more undesirable people and unpleasant children that have moved in with their families that work at the casino. Never give up. It is more then the any money involved but the lifestyle you want to maintain.
Good luck and keep fighting.

walk one block off the Atlantic City boardwalk or a couple of blocks off hte Vegas strip, and you'll see, in a condensed form, what casinos do to the towns: derelict properties, addicts, prostitutes, the hard-core homeless. It will come to your town. It will come to the Rez, too, don't think it won't. Meth, alcohol, gambling addiction - it hits us Indians sooner or later. Oh yeah - disenrollment, too!

So when your brother is gambling up his paycheck the same day he gets it, instead of going home to his family, you'll know what I mean. Remember the Hopi legend of the Gambler. They had it right!

Well, it looks like most people want the county to keep fighting. They can't all be wealthy retirees. I'm not! ISlam teaches against gambling, saying that It is not lawful for Muslims to seek relaxation and recreation in gambling, nor is it lawful for to acquire money through it.

Muslims believe that gambling makes us depend on luck, diverting us from honest labor, serious work and productive effort.

The Qur'an lumps alcohol and gambling together, one is a bad as the other for people. ("O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, sacrificing to stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that you may prosper.[5:90]")

A basic principle of Islam says that we must not take that which we have not earned or worked for, as well as fairness and justice. In the Qu'ran's Arabic, "gambling" comes from a word that means "easy" and "something attained with no effort."

"They ask you concerning wine and gambling. Say: 'In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit.'"[2:219]

That sounds right to me.

Since the county has no money, all of us anti-casino folks should march to the county treasurer and give him a check to help pay the county's legal fees. Let's all of us put our money where are loud mouths are.

Placer County spent millions trying to stop Thunder Valley -- El Dorado County spent millions trying to stop Red Hawk.

We are already in the hole -- we have no more money to spend. We will be taking away from valuable programs or staff salaries to continue this fight.

Enouch is enough.

Here's how it works, second enough: you spend money now to stop it - and not all casinos are the same. Some can be stopped and have been stopped - or you spend more money on police, fire, drug, alcohol and gambling addiction counseling services, and other social services as the broken homes, child abuse, people spending the rent money at the casino begins to boil through your town. Happens all the time. Casinos take their toll, financially, physically and spiritually, on the community. Spending money now to stop one is money well-spent. WHo do you think the tribe is getting its money from? Gambling companies, that's who, and if you haven't been keeping up with the news, gambling concerns are tanking now, and will continue to tank for the next 5 to 7 years! Even the big Indian casinos are hurting. You ask me, now's the time to go in for the kill.

Okay, Pete - just name a few that have been stopped. Seems to me that when asked it is only those that are still in the fight. The Native Americans have perseverance and they keep going with their plight. The only ones making money here are the lawyers.

It was wierd today, like an E-mail campaign went out to outside anti-casino group to vote this poll to alter the results. I trust the first couple of days when it was mostly local votes. The BOS knows the most about the chance of this casino happening and they need to make good decisions with the county"s money.

Poll Observer Maybe the results of the poll are simply an accurate reflection of the non binding Measure I vote where 84% of Amador voters in a 73% turnout voted no more casinos in Amador County. That would be about 62% of Amador voters.

Keep up the fight... it's not just retired folks who are against this casino. I realize that we're running out of money trying to fight it. I realize that our economy is suffering and everyone needs jobs. But those of us who have chosen to live here, live here for a reason. Allowing this casino to go in just to provide some jobs, is not worth sacrificing our way of life for. We have to look at the big picture and how it will affect our communities later on.

The current economy situation will eventually improve... it's temporary. Giving up the fight and letting another casino destroy our beloved County... is permanent.

Southhampton casino project stopped ( by a federal court judge). Sullivan County NY casino stopped by court action. A number of proposals in the Bay area stopped, including one in Contra Costa County and the Oakland airport casino project. Buffalo NY casino declared illegal after it was under construction. I could go on, but its early. Casinos can be stopped. You have rights. Assert them.

Poll Observer: yeah, it's a bummer that the county employees and other casino boosters got out-voted. But wait. Didn't that happen before? Oh, yeah, Measure I.

All I am saying is if the BOS knows that there is really not a chance of stopping the casino, start putting efforts towards preparing for it. How long has the Jackson Rancheria been here before speed limits and intersection adjustments were made? The BOS could work towards these safety measures now with the tribe. I live in that area and we are going to need these things addressed. Please, BOS, use county money wisely.

So what are you saying, Poll Observer? Don't you think that people have a right to alert interested friends and neighbors about the poll? Mostly local votes? How do you know that? I don't see anywhere to register our home address.

I'm sorry if am wrong about the poll being manipulated, my mistake. At BOS town meetings there was so much hate, people were afraid to ask questions. People quit going because it was non productive. Mr. Escamilla and Mr. Novelli must of voted on the truth, not on emotion or intimidation.

POLL OBSERVER
1/18/2009 4:55:12 PM ET

I'm sorry if am wrong about the poll being manipulated, my mistake. At BOS town meetings there was so much hate, people were afraid to ask questions. People quit going because it was non productive. Mr. Escamilla and Mr. Novelli must of voted on the truth, not on emotion or intimidation.
Poll Observer you are so correct!!!

I guess if you consider the will of the MAJORITY (proved by Measure I) to be "intimidation"! For heaven's sakes! Opposition to casino expansion in Amador Co. isn't by some fringe element. It's MOST of the people! The Supervisors should be listening! They were right in in their decision to challenge the tribe's authenticity. When is a tribe not a tribe? Usually when it's from a California rancheria. There's too many phony tribes trying to get casinos in California today. It's an insult to legitimate tribes. And yes, I am Native American. I am a proud Shawnee.